We talk about affordable housing, jobs, ageism, changing demographics, even potholes. Don't you think these pale into significance when we think of the world's needs for energy? Ok, we moan about the price of petrol, gas and electricity but I think there is something much more worrying afoot. And maybe the chance of the USA invading Iran is much more real than we dare think.
China is growing so fast, it is creating massive trade imbalances. Their drive for growth, development and enrichment seems insatiable. And in some ways it has only just started. The world is already buying so much from them, countries like the US have something like a 250 billion dollar deficit. What will happen when the developed world is so indebted to China that they are totally at China's mercy. Will China spend its wealth on the one commodity the west is best at - military technology? Having got it, as China's manufacturing industry uses up available energy resources will it use it's new found technology to capture the oil and gas supplies it needs around the world, denying the west of the energy it also needs? Who could stop it?
With this in mind is it really possible the US wants to protect its interests, and energy needs for the future and invade not only Iran but also Venezuela? Is it pie in the sky or are we potentially heading into a period of world war for energy? Russia is already turning on and off gas supplies to countries who don't pay their price or bend to the their will to dominate every market.
I fear for the future, whichever peaceful corner I live in.
Living in your own world?
Moderator: Herby Dice
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Seil Blubber
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:44 pm
- Location: Seil Sound
Mr. P Pirate - special subject, the bleedin' obvious
(with apologies to Basil Fawlty)
Oh come on,
Most of us have realised since the early 70s that eventually there would be a war over energy.
Have you never seen any of the Mad Max films?
There is nothing any of us can do about this, so why not concentrate on affordable housing and other trends we MIGHT be able to influence?
Seil Blubber
Oh come on,
Most of us have realised since the early 70s that eventually there would be a war over energy.
Have you never seen any of the Mad Max films?
There is nothing any of us can do about this, so why not concentrate on affordable housing and other trends we MIGHT be able to influence?
Seil Blubber
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wasseventhseil
MMMMMM......
A war about energy........which one the Falklands or the two Gulf wars?
Never fear we have plenty oil and coal, its unfortunate that we flogged it off to multi nationals and any money that the treasury did get was spent de-industrializing Britain .......stuff like closing down coal mines and europes most efficiant steel rolling mill......but hey now we can get jobs in call centres if they havnt been out sourced to India.....y know top earning service sector jobs.
Why should China not get a fair crack at the whip ? or is this one of these strange things goverments in the west seem to trot out ......racism on a grand scale "China shouldnt become a superpower" "the middle east cant be trusted with its own resourses" "Africa needs our help to sort them out" etc etc......always forgeting most of these countrys or continents had civilizations long before we did!
But hey we voted for a succesion of short termist right wing goverments thus you reap what you sow.
And as this is a local forum for local issues we best get back to being parochial......Why do we have a 30 yr old service bus its crazy!!!
Never fear we have plenty oil and coal, its unfortunate that we flogged it off to multi nationals and any money that the treasury did get was spent de-industrializing Britain .......stuff like closing down coal mines and europes most efficiant steel rolling mill......but hey now we can get jobs in call centres if they havnt been out sourced to India.....y know top earning service sector jobs.
Why should China not get a fair crack at the whip ? or is this one of these strange things goverments in the west seem to trot out ......racism on a grand scale "China shouldnt become a superpower" "the middle east cant be trusted with its own resourses" "Africa needs our help to sort them out" etc etc......always forgeting most of these countrys or continents had civilizations long before we did!
But hey we voted for a succesion of short termist right wing goverments thus you reap what you sow.
And as this is a local forum for local issues we best get back to being parochial......Why do we have a 30 yr old service bus its crazy!!!
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Pentlandpirate
Local issues
That's my fear. World issues might be about to have a significant effect even on quiet little corners like Seil.
In the petrol strikes a few years ago the UK came within a day or so of total anarchy. In this day and age how do you live when there is no fuel in the pumps, no food in the shops, no money in the cash machines, no electricity or gas for your heating and cooking, no services because no one can drive anywhere or deliver anything, no communication because the telephones, radios, internet cannot be powered?
As Seil Blubber said do we get pitched into the real-life set of Mad Max........even in Seil?
In the petrol strikes a few years ago the UK came within a day or so of total anarchy. In this day and age how do you live when there is no fuel in the pumps, no food in the shops, no money in the cash machines, no electricity or gas for your heating and cooking, no services because no one can drive anywhere or deliver anything, no communication because the telephones, radios, internet cannot be powered?
As Seil Blubber said do we get pitched into the real-life set of Mad Max........even in Seil?
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Seil Blubber
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:44 pm
- Location: Seil Sound
No we don't
We blow the bridge and learn to live off our wits (what remains) and our not inconsiderable natural resources . . .As Seil Blubber said do we get pitched into the real-life set of Mad Max........even in Seil?
Seil Blubber
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Ticonderoga
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:52 pm
- Location: Argyll
As a society and as individuals we have been warned about the energy crisis from many and varied sources for at least 40 years. Living in a so-called developed country we are primarily to blame for the crisis thanks to our slavish race to embrace consumerism. We will probably be least able to cope with any real crisis as well. How many people panic nowadays if they can't get a mobile phone signal.
And, of course, Seil, Argyll, the Highlands will be drastically affected. You can kiss goodbye to the tourist trade for a start.
But as individuals we can do nothing? Rubbish! That's just a conscience-salving excuse to make no effort. Governments of every hue just love an electorate that believe they have lost all ability to make change. Individual effort does make a difference and individual efforts in number can make a real change. Our society has survived as a precarious house of cards for years, yet it is vulnerable to so many factors that could easily bring it crashing down. We better get used to the fact that living in a pleasant rural landscape will not make us immune to any world crisis, whether it's energy or global warming.
And, of course, Seil, Argyll, the Highlands will be drastically affected. You can kiss goodbye to the tourist trade for a start.
But as individuals we can do nothing? Rubbish! That's just a conscience-salving excuse to make no effort. Governments of every hue just love an electorate that believe they have lost all ability to make change. Individual effort does make a difference and individual efforts in number can make a real change. Our society has survived as a precarious house of cards for years, yet it is vulnerable to so many factors that could easily bring it crashing down. We better get used to the fact that living in a pleasant rural landscape will not make us immune to any world crisis, whether it's energy or global warming.
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Seil Blubber
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:44 pm
- Location: Seil Sound
I disagree . . .
- Well, not many of us on Seil . . . we can't get one anyway.How many people panic nowadays if they can't get a mobile phone signal.
Rural communities like this will be affected much less than most by the gradual but inevitable fall of the Thatcher/Blair empire. A lot of stuff that is important to rural, devolved communities - like sheep, fish and the internet - will survive.
The real locals will survive and (comparitively) flourish when the ordure hits the big whirly thing.
Seil Blubber
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Pentlandpirate
Immune?
You put it better than me, but this is the point I was trying to get across at the start of this thread. Yes, you may have your own water supply, fish from the sea, food from the land, so you can survive at a basic level.We better get used to the fact that living in a pleasant rural landscape will not make us immune to any world crisis, whether it's energy or global warming.
In the next world war for energy the internet could be the first victim, and imagine what impact that would have alone. With no energy you will go back to the horse and cart.
In place of tourists bringing revenue to the area you may find massive numbers of "refugees" from the cities moving to areas they identify as being self-sufficient.
Anarchy will rule and you will be powerless to stop them taking the meat and fish and other food you think might keep you self-sufficient.
Whatever you say, what is happening in the outside world, looks like it will have a major impact even on communities like yours.
What happens there WILL be a "local issue!"
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NickB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2514
- Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:18 pm
- Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land (or so I'm told by some)
- Contact:
Kindly monger your doom elsewhere . . .
Well PP, you seem determined to depress us all.
While Mr.Blubber may be naively optimistic you have to admit that if it all goes horribly pear-shaped those of us living in a rural environment who are not currently dependent on centralised services of one kind or another will almost certainly last a bit longer.
Voices of doom have been ringing out for as long as I can remember. In the 70s We definitely weren't going to have any oil left by now. Erm . . .
As for climate doom, expert opinion as recently expressed seems to believe that we can still obviate the grosser effects of global warming if we take action sometime in the next decade or so; it isn't too late, so that is not a good excuse for doing nothing.
The odd toilet roll trauma or sliced white riot in Tescos will no doubt make headlines, but it isn't going to send the starving hordes rampaging across the Atlantic Bridge just yet. I think we still a bit away from any dramatic and precipitate social collapse.
IMHO rampant doom-mongering is unhelpful in the extreme . . . all it leads to is the notion that we might as well give up and concentrate on looking after no.1
- Nick
While Mr.Blubber may be naively optimistic you have to admit that if it all goes horribly pear-shaped those of us living in a rural environment who are not currently dependent on centralised services of one kind or another will almost certainly last a bit longer.
Voices of doom have been ringing out for as long as I can remember. In the 70s We definitely weren't going to have any oil left by now. Erm . . .
As for climate doom, expert opinion as recently expressed seems to believe that we can still obviate the grosser effects of global warming if we take action sometime in the next decade or so; it isn't too late, so that is not a good excuse for doing nothing.
The odd toilet roll trauma or sliced white riot in Tescos will no doubt make headlines, but it isn't going to send the starving hordes rampaging across the Atlantic Bridge just yet. I think we still a bit away from any dramatic and precipitate social collapse.
IMHO rampant doom-mongering is unhelpful in the extreme . . . all it leads to is the notion that we might as well give up and concentrate on looking after no.1
- Nick
NickB
(site admin)
(site admin)
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Pentlandpirate
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novus ordo seclorum
Love it chaps !!!
>you may find massive numbers of "refugees" from the cities
>Anarchy will rule
>you will be powerless to stop them taking the meat and fish
>of course, Seil, Argyll, the Highlands will be drastically affected
>We blow the bridge and learn to live off our wits
>we get pitched into the real-life set of Mad Max
>we're all doomed!
BRING IT ON ! Can't wait.
Hey; don't forget bird flu, CJD, Aids, comet impact, red peril, alien invasion and, of course, the millenium bug.
I haven't laughed so much since the night of Shock and Awe.
NOS
ps
Seventhseil, old chum, the three wars you mentioned as maybe being wars about energy were all wars of liberation.
>you may find massive numbers of "refugees" from the cities
>Anarchy will rule
>you will be powerless to stop them taking the meat and fish
>of course, Seil, Argyll, the Highlands will be drastically affected
>We blow the bridge and learn to live off our wits
>we get pitched into the real-life set of Mad Max
>we're all doomed!
BRING IT ON ! Can't wait.
Hey; don't forget bird flu, CJD, Aids, comet impact, red peril, alien invasion and, of course, the millenium bug.
I haven't laughed so much since the night of Shock and Awe.
NOS
ps
Seventhseil, old chum, the three wars you mentioned as maybe being wars about energy were all wars of liberation.
Honestly, I have tried to stay out of this gloom and doom thread. Really.
But since the States have been mentioned I feel I must add my two cents worth.
NOS, As to the three wars being for liberation, I can not speak for the Faulklands as it was your war. The two gulf wars on the other hand, WERE, I repeat, Were all about the oil. If it wasn't for Kuwait's oil reserves, the U.S. could have cared less. If the U.S. was concerned about anything other than oil, we would have been in some of the African nations were they are killing people by the 100's of thousands. But as you well know we are remaining silent on those issues.
As to the current Gulf war, there were no WMDs, no terroist links, or any other sensible reason. Iraq was planning on switching to the Euro instead of the U.S. dollar as payment for its fuel. As our dollar uses oil as our backing, we could not allow this. Iran and Venezula are also both threatening to make the switch over to the Euro. We are rattling our sabre at them also.
As to gloom and doom. All one can do is wake up each and every morning and do the best that they can do. We run an Organic farm here. Our slogan is: "we can't feed the whole world healthy food, but we can make a difference here." The residents of Seil are doing just fine IMHO. Take care of the Island and let the rest of the world handle its self. Just my thoughts on this.
Cheers
Bob
But since the States have been mentioned I feel I must add my two cents worth.
NOS, As to the three wars being for liberation, I can not speak for the Faulklands as it was your war. The two gulf wars on the other hand, WERE, I repeat, Were all about the oil. If it wasn't for Kuwait's oil reserves, the U.S. could have cared less. If the U.S. was concerned about anything other than oil, we would have been in some of the African nations were they are killing people by the 100's of thousands. But as you well know we are remaining silent on those issues.
As to the current Gulf war, there were no WMDs, no terroist links, or any other sensible reason. Iraq was planning on switching to the Euro instead of the U.S. dollar as payment for its fuel. As our dollar uses oil as our backing, we could not allow this. Iran and Venezula are also both threatening to make the switch over to the Euro. We are rattling our sabre at them also.
As to gloom and doom. All one can do is wake up each and every morning and do the best that they can do. We run an Organic farm here. Our slogan is: "we can't feed the whole world healthy food, but we can make a difference here." The residents of Seil are doing just fine IMHO. Take care of the Island and let the rest of the world handle its self. Just my thoughts on this.
Cheers
Bob
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novus ordo seclorum
Bob;
Good to hear your thoughts on this touchy one.
To help you on the Falklands conflict, well there is oil below the deep and stormy seas of the South Atlantic but totally economically unviable to exploit. Crude would need to be at $200 a barrel to get Exxon etc interested. The main resources of the islands are mutton, wool and krill. Two thousand islanders of British, mainly Scots and Welsh descent, woke up one morning in 1982 to find themselves invaded by an extreme right wing dictatorship from a country who's nationals had never, ever, settled the islands. A true war of liberation. Hope that helps.
Now then: Kuwait accounts for a mere 2% of the U.S.A.'s oil imports. A war to secure oil supplies - you're joking. Kuwait, too, had been invaded by an extreme right wing dictatorship and was in the process of being pillaged and raped (literally) when the Coalition (backed by a U.N. resolution) liberated the country - and stopped there.
Iraq; No (zero - zilch - 0%) oil has been exported to the U.S. since the Ayottolah took over. Hardly a war to secure oil supplies.
Finally; 10% of U.S. oil comes from two African nations - Angola and Nigeria. No question of invading them but U.S. did go into an African country (oil-free) where they slaughter each other in the thousands and what thanks or support from the free world did they get. Somalia.
NOS (looking forward to fighting off the Mad Max hordes as they cross the Clachan Bridge and stripping down his landrover to carry a Browning 30mm)
Good to hear your thoughts on this touchy one.
To help you on the Falklands conflict, well there is oil below the deep and stormy seas of the South Atlantic but totally economically unviable to exploit. Crude would need to be at $200 a barrel to get Exxon etc interested. The main resources of the islands are mutton, wool and krill. Two thousand islanders of British, mainly Scots and Welsh descent, woke up one morning in 1982 to find themselves invaded by an extreme right wing dictatorship from a country who's nationals had never, ever, settled the islands. A true war of liberation. Hope that helps.
Now then: Kuwait accounts for a mere 2% of the U.S.A.'s oil imports. A war to secure oil supplies - you're joking. Kuwait, too, had been invaded by an extreme right wing dictatorship and was in the process of being pillaged and raped (literally) when the Coalition (backed by a U.N. resolution) liberated the country - and stopped there.
Iraq; No (zero - zilch - 0%) oil has been exported to the U.S. since the Ayottolah took over. Hardly a war to secure oil supplies.
Finally; 10% of U.S. oil comes from two African nations - Angola and Nigeria. No question of invading them but U.S. did go into an African country (oil-free) where they slaughter each other in the thousands and what thanks or support from the free world did they get. Somalia.
NOS (looking forward to fighting off the Mad Max hordes as they cross the Clachan Bridge and stripping down his landrover to carry a Browning 30mm)
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Pentlandpirate
....might be an idea for a film here! The world gone mad, refugees fighting each other and any one who gets in their way of getting to the self sufficient paradise of Seil.....kilted hairy locals trying to head them off at the bridge....you know a Braveheart, Mad Maxy kind of film ...the title,"A Bridge Too Far". If Hollywood could make that film Local Hero, some producer is bound to go for it! Any ideas for a local heroine?NOS (looking forward to fighting off the Mad Max hordes as they cross the Clachan Bridge and stripping down his landrover to carry a Browning 30mm)
I'm off down the pub! I'll panic when the alcohol dries up.
But, to add to the serious debate:-
1. No-one has mentioned North Korea. Seems to have gone quiet on that front.
2. Sometime ago the debate was that the next war would be over water. There's quite a few countries really struggling without it and when large numbers of folk go off in search of land where they can suruvive it can cause no end of problems.
3. I hear the Australians have got some excellent technology for dealing with their water shortage. I can't understand why we don't use it over here - the south of England could do with a few ideas.
I take it we've all got to sign up for Dad's Army and meet at the bridge?
But, to add to the serious debate:-
1. No-one has mentioned North Korea. Seems to have gone quiet on that front.
2. Sometime ago the debate was that the next war would be over water. There's quite a few countries really struggling without it and when large numbers of folk go off in search of land where they can suruvive it can cause no end of problems.
3. I hear the Australians have got some excellent technology for dealing with their water shortage. I can't understand why we don't use it over here - the south of England could do with a few ideas.
I take it we've all got to sign up for Dad's Army and meet at the bridge?
Mad Max . . .
Mad Max 4 - Over The Atlantic Bridge . . . (turn right at Thunderdome and pull in to allow others to pass).
Seriously though . . . set-jetting is all the rage and making a film of such gravitas here would undoubtedly bring a better class of tourist . . . so who should we approach with the idea, and what percentage of the proceeds should go to the Hall Fund?
Seilant
Seriously though . . . set-jetting is all the rage and making a film of such gravitas here would undoubtedly bring a better class of tourist . . . so who should we approach with the idea, and what percentage of the proceeds should go to the Hall Fund?
Seilant
NOS;
I knew I was going to regret getting involved with this thread, but silly me, I did it anyway.
I will assume you ment Iran when you mentioned the Ayatollah. Not Iraq. Easy typo.
The U.S. does not care who buys oil as long as it is purchased with U.S. Dollars. All OPEC oil is bought with U.S. Dollars. Even the oil you burn in your car is bought with U.S. currency. The UK and other countries buy dollars from us to purchase oil. It is part of the OPEC agreement after WW2. If you check stock prices for oil you will see that it is around $75 a barrel. Not 40 pounds a barrel. (sorry my computer doen't have the pound sign). If OPEC were to switch to EUROs, the U.S. dollar would fail and the States would be bankrupt. I hope this makes sence to you.
Now to Somalia.... It has/had a strategic value to the U.S. Location to the Straits of Hormuz and secondly it is a great place for us to launch planes. With casualties mounting, Pres. Clinton felt it was not worth the political fallout for the base. So we left.
I think that I will leave this thread alone. This is not the place to discuss world politics. My apologies to everyone for getting dragged into this discussion.
Cheers
Bob
I agree with Minimum. I'm off to the pub for a pint and a smoke. Thats right, we can smoke here. LOL
I knew I was going to regret getting involved with this thread, but silly me, I did it anyway.
I will assume you ment Iran when you mentioned the Ayatollah. Not Iraq. Easy typo.
The U.S. does not care who buys oil as long as it is purchased with U.S. Dollars. All OPEC oil is bought with U.S. Dollars. Even the oil you burn in your car is bought with U.S. currency. The UK and other countries buy dollars from us to purchase oil. It is part of the OPEC agreement after WW2. If you check stock prices for oil you will see that it is around $75 a barrel. Not 40 pounds a barrel. (sorry my computer doen't have the pound sign). If OPEC were to switch to EUROs, the U.S. dollar would fail and the States would be bankrupt. I hope this makes sence to you.
Now to Somalia.... It has/had a strategic value to the U.S. Location to the Straits of Hormuz and secondly it is a great place for us to launch planes. With casualties mounting, Pres. Clinton felt it was not worth the political fallout for the base. So we left.
I think that I will leave this thread alone. This is not the place to discuss world politics. My apologies to everyone for getting dragged into this discussion.
Cheers
Bob
I agree with Minimum. I'm off to the pub for a pint and a smoke. Thats right, we can smoke here. LOL
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wasseventhseil
ho ho ho
As it goes I always thought that Kuwait was basicly a huge oil terminal where the middle easts oil was pumped aboard tankers.....yes no?
One thing is for sure its where the majority of Saddam's U.S and U.K weapons were landed and trucked into Iraq..........
Any way I see that GAZPROM the russian gas giant is trying to take over European and British gas company's much to the dismay of all the greasy palmed carpet baggers in London. Yes they are very upset that this corp. is part owned by the Russian state...........funny how these country's with state owned utility/energy company's seem to be the big players globaly.
Pehaps privatization and a move into the service sector wasn't such a good idea!!!
As for the Falklands ,are they not on the verge of recieving a windfall as there are serious talks of oil exploration in that region?.....and of course the war also helped the Maggon stay in power longer which I suppose if you are an old Tory could be construed as a good reason to go to war.
But enough of this tomfoolery I would rather they filmed "ECORAMBO" here....the story is: an ecologist working for the SNH turns the west coast into an "eco tourism" mecca banning all real jobs in an attempt to save the enviroment!.........unfortunatly getting so many tourists up here and ferrying them about in high powered boats burns so much fossil feul that the ice caps melt and we all die under 15 feet of water!!! Starring Dennis Hopper and Halle Berry.
One thing is for sure its where the majority of Saddam's U.S and U.K weapons were landed and trucked into Iraq..........
Any way I see that GAZPROM the russian gas giant is trying to take over European and British gas company's much to the dismay of all the greasy palmed carpet baggers in London. Yes they are very upset that this corp. is part owned by the Russian state...........funny how these country's with state owned utility/energy company's seem to be the big players globaly.
Pehaps privatization and a move into the service sector wasn't such a good idea!!!
As for the Falklands ,are they not on the verge of recieving a windfall as there are serious talks of oil exploration in that region?.....and of course the war also helped the Maggon stay in power longer which I suppose if you are an old Tory could be construed as a good reason to go to war.
But enough of this tomfoolery I would rather they filmed "ECORAMBO" here....the story is: an ecologist working for the SNH turns the west coast into an "eco tourism" mecca banning all real jobs in an attempt to save the enviroment!.........unfortunatly getting so many tourists up here and ferrying them about in high powered boats burns so much fossil feul that the ice caps melt and we all die under 15 feet of water!!! Starring Dennis Hopper and Halle Berry.
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Pentlandpirate
Ecorambo film
I thought we decided there had been enough doom and gloom
Can't you give it a happy ending, and where's the love story?!.........unfortunatly getting so many tourists up here and ferrying them about in high powered boats burns so much fossil feul that the ice caps melt and we all die under 15 feet of water!!!
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