A National Conversation

[Anon]

What do the Seil bloggers think about wee Eck's National Conversation at
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/topics/a-nat ... nversation ?

Isn't it good to talk?! Lots more chance to blog there too! C'mon Seileachans, join in!!

[Pentlandpirate]

Given that there are supposedly 20 million Scots in the world why is it that only those who live there can decide whether it becomes a separate nation?

Also, as someone who was born in BRITAIN with a British passport why is it that someone in Scotland has the right to take away part of my homeland?

[anon]

PP, the conversation is open to all. And, if a referendum in Scotland should happen, and in the unlikely case that a majority voted for independence, the matter would then go to the BRITISH parliament for discussion and decision. Download the documents and read how it works.

[Tim Bowles]

Given that there are supposedly 20 million Scots in the world why is it that only those who live there can decide whether it becomes a separate nation?

Also, as someone who was born in BRITAIN with a British passport why is it that someone in Scotland has the right to take away part of my homeland?

How many of those 20 million Scots are indeed Scots, or merely people of Scots ancestry? How many of them reside in Scotland, pay taxes in Scotland, are affected by political decisions involving Scotland?

Should all those Americans, Canadians, Australians etc. etc. who are descended from Brits have any say whatsoever in the running of Britain? Of course not, and neither should anyone who claims Scots ancestry but owe their allegiance (and pay their taxes to) another country have any say in who runs Scotland.

As to the second question, the Scots can make decisions regarding Scotland as is their right. The Union with England was agreed by a Scots parliament, the right to dissolve that union must also reside with a Scots parliament (although this time perhaps representing the wishes of the Scots people). Always assuming that a referendum ever takes place, and it comes down in favour of independence, something which is by no means certain.

[Pentlandpirate]

It ain't just people in Scotland who pay taxes that benefit those who live in Scotland.

And I am British. I live in a country called the United Kingdom. Scotland is not a separate state. I say again, who has the right to give away part of the country I was born in to, live in and pay taxes to, without a democratic vote on it? i.e a referendum for the whole UK as to whether Scotland can separate. I want my vote.

[Seil Sally]

?? - so in non-eds language, you think the Scots nation should ask the people of England AND Wales AND Ireland if it's okay for the Scots to form their own, independant country ???
What if they say "NO" ??

I dare say everyone then would just accept that a man in Coventry (FOR EXAMPLE) decides the Scots future.....

[Pentlandpirate]

That's right SS. That area called Scotland is part of MY country. i.e the United Kingdom. Aren't I entitled to some say in whether it is given up? That's the basis of democracy in the UK; one man (or woman), one vote.

If the Scots can't see the folly of independence, then the rest of the UK can do them a favour by voting to keep us together. The SNP are blinded by nationalistic fervour and an antiquated and romantic dream of how Scotland should be.

Mind you if the SNP can't even keep a majority in the Scottish Parliament, what chance have they got? Be realistic.

[elephantseal]

'mon the nationalistic fervour!!!!!!!

p.s. note to erik and cod piece - some of that STATOIL would come in handy when ours runs out

[Tim Bowles]

If (and it is a very big if) a majority of the voters of Scotland eventually vote for independence, do you really believe that any number of votes against by English, Welsh, Irish, or anyone else would, or even could, prevent independence from happening?

If the UK ever decides to withdraw from the EU, would you accept that this could only happen if every other member state had a referendum which voted in favour of it? Would it be acceptable for German voters, for example, to decide if the UK were to be allowed to go?

Independence for Scotland is a matter purely for the voters of Scotland. That is what democracy is about.

[Pentlandpirate]

Why is Scotland YOURS and not MINE? Have you ever looked at it from the other perspective? I was born in a country which is made up of Scotland, N.I, Wales and England. I pay taxes for all of it. I travel freely within it and it is MY country, shared with everyone else. What gives a minority the right to say this is OURS if we want it?

Membership of the EU is a totally different situation. Having said that, all of the other nations would have to decide if Scotland could join the EU.

[Seventhseil]

Usual post imperial cods wallop...... as one of the first members of the "British" empire it is surely our right to seek independence if we wish, first in last out.

Any way as subsidy junkies, whinging jocks etc etc, why should you be worried about Scotland leaving the union.....then again where would "Britain" get 40% of its soldiers, all of its oil,.......

Britain and Britishness are no longer an issue, being sold short and treated as though Scotland does not have the inteligence or ambition to govern its own affairs is.

[canUsmellthat]

Yup, yup, England's ego is writing cheques its body can't cash!

Maybe the geocache'ers could dig a big border between us and fill it in with water after throwing south any protestors and Campbells!

[EnglishLocal]

My my. Listen. People LIVING in Scotland and paying their TAXES in Scotland are the only ones to vote for independence.

Nobody regardless of where they were born if not living in or paying taxes in Scotland can vote.

If it were the other way about and England voted for their independence do you think we should be allowed to vote on that?


NO

[Pentlandpirate]

Any way as subsidy junkies, whinging jocks etc etc, why should you be worried about Scotland leaving the union.....then again where would "Britain" get 40% of its soldiers, all of its oil,.......

Like millions, in the UK (including Scotland) I don't want Scotland to leave the Union because I am part Scots. It's always the minorities that shout the loudest and drown out the majority but you'll only find a minority of English refer to Scots as whinging jocks etc, the same as you'll only find a minority of resident Scots want separation.

Shout all you like. You are probably in the minority. Sorry, it's just a fact of life.

[Ticonderoga]

Nothing like a bit of revisionist history - Scotland isn't a part of any country - let's remember it was and still is an independent country in its own right ,that was incorporated to create a false state against the general will of the Scottish people at the time. Remember there were riots against the Union in all the major cities.
However, its good to hear a bit of colonial rant - guaranteed to push any swithering Scots towards the route to independence. There's nothing like someone telling you how things should be in your own country, and why you should be grateful to gather in few more votes for separation.

[canUsmellthat]

What did he say?

[canUsmellthat]

Lets do it properly...through out any professionals too...

[canUsmellthat]

once you're through with them throw them, get it right.

Anyone want to head to the wolly?

[anon]

Thanks for your contributions, canU. Maybe you should change your name to can'tU! Or Ucan't!

I think Ticonderoga is dead right - colonial rant can tip the balance. But I think PP is just a bit of a "remote control" freak, in terms of both the independence issue and this blog site.

Remember - this is supposed only to be a conversation, possibly with a referendum at its end. How the 3 undemocratic parties can oppose a public debate and vote is beyond me....

[Pentlandpirate]

You get me wrong! I'm not a control freak, and I love Scotland more than you might think. What is a debate if you don't have differing views expressed in it? When I lived in Scotland and the SNP were a 'smaller' voice, I was quite sympathetic to them. But I think independence is a step too far.

When so many in the world look at the UK as one of the best places to live what is it that Scotland wants so much that it hasn't already got? Ah I hear, "Freedom!", (yes we all remember Braveheart screaming out "Freedom!" as he had his guts ripped out). Freedom normally comes at a price.

Aren't there just too many people in this world who worry more about what they haven't got, rather than appreciating what they HAVE got?

What are you prepared to give up for 'FREEDOM'?