Scotland's Economy: the case for independence.

[Tony the Toad]

http://scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0042/00422987.pdf

[Pentlandpirate]

Mmmmm! Pretty watery stuff, but are we surprised? I can't say I have read it in detail, but nothing jumped out as real substance anyway. It is all so wishy washy. If senior executives at a major plc put together a business plan for their company's future with this level of detail their bosses and shareholders would throw it out as being far too broadbrush and lacking in real, credible content. Surely the Yes Campaign realise voters want the nitty gritty and they just aren't getting it

I think it telling that this 'brochure' was focussed on the subject of Scotland's Economy and not on any of the other thorny aspects of independence. But what a farce to come up with an apparently serious document about Scotland's Economy when the Yes Campaign can't even answer the most basic questions on banking or whether they will be able to use the pound. You cannot talk about Scotland's future economy without bedrock fundamentals to build it on.

And in suggesting England's economy isn't doing so well......well, it would have been doing a helluva lot better if it hadn't had to help bail out those two huge Scottish Banks, The Royal Bank of Scotland and HBOS, Halifax Bank of Scotland.

The document starts with extolling Scotland's inventions and discoveries. Impressive yes, but piffling when stood against the achievements of the United kingdom as a whole. I can barely say it, but even those leftie, socialist, striking, whinging train drivers at ASLEF have recognised we are better together.

[NickB]

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[NickB]

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From today's Herald:


Hundreds of millions to be cut from Scots block grant

[MonaLott]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDZe0vT ... r_embedded

Yahoo!

[NickB]

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To include a youtube video in a post on here you can use the following BBcode:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDZe0vTedV4[/youtube]

BUT replace the www in the URL with uk

[youtube]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xDZe0vTedV4[/youtube]

[longshanks]

[youtube]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FqXIanIWwc8[/youtube]

[NickB]

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Just more of the same dreary 'too wee, too poor, too small' rubbish. My personal favourite is the ludicrous idea that Scotland is 'cursed by oil'

Here's a few unionist myths debunked:


[youtube]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JDrqamBHqLg[/youtube]

[longshanks]

[NickB]

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You put up a post entitled 'Lets try to avoid the insults and sneers...' then post a bizarre and rather sinister picture from an anonymous source of some completely unattributed insults and sneers with the text 'help us stamp out this vile nationalism' at the bottom.

A very mature contribution to the debate

[Pentlandpirate]

As one who is against independence to one who is for independence, he still doesn't get what your issue is, does he Longshanks?

These clips show that there are truths from both sides, and some of them are nasty truths. But what one Yes voter finds insulting is the lack of honesty and integrity displayed by Yes Campaigners who tell the people they will make Scotland a fairer more equal society with higher standards of integrity and transparency in government if they give a 'yes' vote, yet they already resort to spin to mislead and misinform as a means to get those votes. If the people of Yes Campaign really mean what they say, and are actually people of integrity, they should already be working to a higher standard.

And what was said of and to Chris Hoy branding him a bigot and lots of other nasty things is true, and shows the same distasteful side of Scottish nationalism displayed in many places (including Seil Chat), and recently to Nigel Farage, UKIP, in Edinburgh .

[NickB]

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. . . what one Yes voter finds insulting is the lack of honesty and integrity displayed by Yes Campaigners

Do you really think Longshanks intends to vote yes, PP?

If he does intend to it would be interesting for all of us, YES or NO, to to hear him put a positive case for independence, don't you think ?

[longshanks]

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Do you really think Longshanks intends to vote yes, PP?

Seeing as I do not recall having any real life interaction with you for many years I do not see how you can have any basis for doubting my voting intention either way apart from your imagination telling you that someone who criticises the spin of the Yes campaign must be a No voter.

I have said many times on here that I am currently uncommited, leaning slightly towards Yes, and if still uncommited personally next September will vote Yes in memory of my grandparents, gaelic speakers from Harris who would have wanted me to vote Yes.

I'm fairly sure I've given my thoughts (vision ?) on independence here quite some time ago.

Anyway, to repeat I would like to live in a TRULY independent Scotland ie a republic with its own currency and without membership of either EU or NATO.

The Yes people are offering us something much less than that currently (independence lite ?) and are campaigning on the basis that we mustn't frighten the animals so spin a fantasy world of milk and honey.

To be honest I am not too concerned in listening to the No argument as that is just as much spin too.

I criticise the Yes spin not for the truly insulting (to a Scotsborn) reason given by you....determined to do down my country, but because I work on the basis of honesty and getting all the facts out, however unpalatable.

Now stop putting words into my mouth.

[NickB]

Anyway, to repeat I would like to live in a TRULY independent Scotland ie a republic with its own currency and without membership of either EU or NATO.

The Yes people are offering us something much less than that currently (independence lite ?) and are campaigning on the basis that we mustn't frighten the animals so spin a fantasy world of milk and honey.

Sorry if you think I am putting words into your mouth - I am just trying to understand your position. I agree with you that the YES campaign are possibly being over-timid in an attempt to not scare the horses. Whether or not this policy will pay off only time will tell, but the polls are certainly not shifting significantly yet. I am not convinced that a radical vision of an independent Scotland such as you propose would do any better though . . . I think most people are scared of radical change.

All 'the YES people' are trying to do is to get people to vote YES on the 18th of September next year. That particular singularity is unavoidable - we are going to be funnelled down it and emerge changed one way or an other on the other side. However, all the other stuff - continued membership of NATO, use of the pound and EU membership are SNP policies, not YES policies. They are no more than a proposed position for Day 1 of independence, and other members of the YES Scotland 'rainbow alliance' profoundly disagree with some of them.

While some legal and practical changes will be needed to make sure the Parliament can exercise its new authority, wider constitutional and policy changes will be the responsibility of the first elected Parliament and Government of an independent Scotland, following the election in May 2016. There is no reason why this has to be be a majority SNP government. With independence Scotland is free to debate NATO and EU membership secure in the knowledge that it can actually elect a government that will carry out its wishes.

Devolution was a first step. Maybe step 2 is 'indy-lite' - which puts the tools and process in place to then move on to stage 3 if that is what people want.