Seil Chat

I recently received an article which included the following:

Message from Keith Brown, MSP, Minister for Schools and Skills

..."The positive impact of having sufficient literacy skills is that we are able to be better citizens, workers and family members, as well as having a positive impact on our health and wellbeing." ...

In my view this type of statement leads to stigma and a loss of confidence amongst those who believe their litereacy skills aren't as good as everyone else's - whatever level that is. How am I a better citizen than someone with less literacy skills than me? (And mine aren't great). What is "sufficient" enough to be a "better" citizen?

Quite frankly, I was appalled. Am I wrong?

It depends on if it was directed at everyone or just those with poor literacy skills.

You take it that he aims his comment at those with below par literacy, however, it could just as easily mean that if everyone had better literacy skills then our general contribution to society would be greater. The better society as a whole can read, write and listen, the better off we all are. Not just for ourselves but for the future generations who will learn from us.

Even if it is directed at those with poor literacy, there is no reason for anyone to feel defensive for it. However, it is something that can be addressed and solved relatively easily should they wish to improve it. There are free programs run by the government and there are a huge number of classes on line.

I Is Wot I Is
Live with it

TEDDY

A postscript on literacy-
There is a serious deterioration in the standards of literacy in the TV and film media.
They now consider it quite acceptible to use the word f****ing as an adjective fo every conceivable circumstance.
This implies a lack of vocabulary for choosing the correct word, in each case, or a suggestion that having a f****ing puncture in your car is a lot more serious than having a puncture, pure and simple;
"Keep your f****ing hands off me"
"The f****ing warden wouldn,t listen to me"
"I lost my f****ing passport at the check-in"
" Your f****ing sister let me down"
" Youv,e got a f****ing nerve"
I could go on ad nauseum with instances where the use of the word f***ing is used indiscriminately with no apparent reason other than to heighten impact, and with no reference to the specific meaning of the word - in no case does it have any sexual implication.

Sorry
Jc ;nothing new in this and is it modern use only

when I joined the army more years ago than anyone cares to remember
(Pontius was an ordinary seaman)

The first phrase I heard as a junior in the workshops was

Way Aye Mon The F####ngF####rsF###d

Which a colleague translated as its broken
but english has never been the same since

Teddy :English Flag

Here’s a link to Frank Skinner’s piece in The Times about sweary things….
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/ ... 161201.ece

There is that Chinese proverb, too, that says ‘the beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names.’

Having digested that article by Frank Skinner, I find it rather sad that he has to resort to swearing to make people laugh.
Secondly - being a onetime big fan of Billy Connolly, have you noticed in his TV programmes that there is not a word out of place, until he gets on to a stage, and then he lets it rip. Sad.
Thirdly - Recently there was a cartoon drawing circulating on the internet in connection with swine flu. It showed a back view of Winnie the Pooh and Piglit, wandering along a lane. Thought from Piglit "How lucky I am to have such a good friend". Thought from Winnie " If the pig sneezes, he,s F****en dead". Although this is a very clever adaptation, it is aeons away from the portrayal of Winnie the Pooh, which has been a delight to so many children. Sad.

Can I take it that you all believe "that we are able to be better citizens, workers and family members" than others because we have "sufficient litereacy skills"?

My father doesn't have particularly good litereacy skills. Indeed, he probably wouldn't have the skills to participate on this chat forum even if he wanted to, but, to me he's the best father in the world. I don't think the reasons for this are anything to do with his literacy skills - more about his love and care for me as his child. Nor do I believe that if his skills improved he would be a "better citizen".

No, Minimum, I wouldn't say that at all. Having a few friends who have been diagnosed with dyslexia, and who would, in the view of some, be regarded as having 'limited literacy skills’, this in no way has reduced their ability to function as valuable members of society; as parents; as sons and daughters; as friends. On the other hand, folk I know of who have very high literacy skills, some professional writers, for example, seem to wilfully use those skills to make as many peoples' lives as miserable as possible. In this respect, I'd certainly agree with you.

Here’s a link to the Keith Brown statement:
http://www.scottishbooktrust.com/files/ ... sector.pdf

You can have a heart of gold, be an exemplary citizen, and a model parent, but if you cannot read, write, or count, in today,s world you are disadvantaged.
It is difficult for those of us, who have these abilities to appreciate just how frustrating the lack of these facilities can be.
The nearest example I can think of, is for someone from Iceland, who can only speak Icelandic, to suddenly find himself alone in the middle of Tokyo.
When I first ventured into the world of education, I did not find that the ability to learn to read came easily, and every other activity in the school day was more attractive than struggling with my first reading book. The same applied when it came to multiplication tables.
However, to this day, I am eternally grateful to the teachers who instilled these abilities into me, much against my will.

if you can complain about the lack of literary skills in others
you can thank those who taught you
you could even go one better and help someone who would appreciate it
but never dare ask

TEDDY

A poem i read in high school: Lob des Lernens by Bertold Brecht:

German with translation

Lob des Lernens Praise of Learning
Lerne das Einfachste! Learn the easiest! Für die, For those
Deren Zeit gekommen ist, Whose time has come
Ist es nie zu spät! Is it never too late!
Lerne das ABC, es genügt nicht, aber Learn the ABC, it is not enough, but
Lerne es! Learn it! Laß es dich nicht verdrießen! Do not let it annoy you!
Fang an! Begin! Du mußt alles wissen! You have to know everything!
Du mußt die Führung übernehmen. You must take the lead/ you must take over the leadership.

Lerne Mann im Asyl! Learn , man in the asylum!
Lerne, Mann im Gefängnis! Learn, man in prison!
Lerne, Frau in der Küche! Learn, women in the kitchen!
Lerne, Sechzigjährige! Learn, sixty year olds!
Du mußt die Führung übernehmen. You must take the lead.
Suche die Schule auf, Obdachloser! Search for the school, the homeless!
Verschaffe dir Wissen, Frierender! Procure your knowledge, Frier finished (graduated)!
Hungriger, greif nach dem Buch: Hungry, reaching for the book:
es ist eine Waffe. It is a weapon.
Du mußt die Führung übernehmen. You must take the lead.(you must take over the leadership)

Scheue dich nicht, zu fragen, Genosse! Do not be afraid to ask, comrade!
Laß dir nichts einreden, Let me convince you nothing;(don't let yourself be convinced of anything)
Sieh selber nach! Look after yourself!(investigate/ research/ look it up yourself/b]
Was du nicht selber weißt, What you do not yourself know
Weißt du nicht. Do not you know.
Prüfe die Rechnung, Check account( prove the reckoning)
Du mußt sie bezahlen. You must pay for them.
Lege den Finger auf jeden Posten, Put your finger on every item
Frage: wie kommt er hierher? Question: how did he (it) come here?
Du mußt die Führung übernehmen. You must take the lead.(you must take over the leadership)

I lived in Dubai for a while, and not speaking or reading Arabic made negotiating and signing basic contracts very stressful: there is a clause on all contracts saying that should there be a dispute, then the Arabic wording of the contract is to apply!?! so most business really came down to trust, and who your sponsor was!
Literacy in any language is useful, but not essential (even in this day and age). (okay, Mr Shanks, lay it on me!!! I know how silly that sounds) Even though literacy is valuable in our acquisition of knowledge, valuable in our confidence in our own space, in our shared world, it is not an indicator of our worth and dignity. And, literacy in no way determines our value as individuals in this world, or our right to live a dignified life.
There are children begging on the sides of the road in Cape Town. I may not speak their language, but I know what they are asking for. And yes, being literate would increase their chances of survival in this world ( and for them it IS about survival), but they need more than the three R's (imperfect literacy Right there, but you know what i mean). Respect! we all need it. We like to define things, and label things and put things in brackets... including ourselves. If we respect ourselves, we will respect what we have to offer our community. There is no respect in labeling people. I hope you can understand what I mean, as I am writing in plain English, n'est pas?!

Brecht war immer so
aber gut

Teddy

Whilst on the subject bareface you other comments are also valid
having lived in Spain wher the attitude is similar i was gently reminded by
a smashing and literate spanish gent that if you dont try any communication you are the
ultimate looser.
He often spoke of the Brits who dont bother to learn the language as he put it
either through ignorance or apathy as the "Spanish Pakistanis"


Funnily enough a remark that helped me towards racial tolerance
and it concentrated my outlook for the future

TEDDY

I see how we got to the language thing. When i say literacy, i mean the skill of reading and writing ... in any language. And about the children in the streets...well, my own babes don't need to send me a word processed proposal for me to know they're hungry either, but my babies get fed (now that's productive communication)...So, my point really is that we have many ways of communicating, and learning more languages can be useful, but not necessarily productive....i'm probably a good example.

Now about that quote:
.."The positive impact of having sufficient literacy skills is that we are able to be better citizens, workers and family members, as well as having a positive impact on our health and wellbeing." ...

here we see literacy, and language skills, but no productivity.... and then again, it depends on who's reading it!...and what they're reading into it...hmmm
I'm gonna cut him some slack on this one, and call it a good intention. yes, yes, yes, we all know where that leads to.

keep smiling, people of Seil.

ps...exercise and healthy nutrition do more good than words, commas and fullstops, and wouldn't it be wonderful if fish, meat,fruit,vegetables and yoga would be affordable and available to all? maybe i'll write an incredibly articulate letter to Tesco requesting their support in this regard.



gotta keep moo-ving?

bareface wrote:I


keep smiling, people of Seil.

i'll write an incredibly articulate letter to Tesco requesting their support in this regard.

gotta keep moo-ving?

pardon my. scepicicism bareface but in Tesco
who could read it

Teddy