There may be other views on this subject which might be worth mentioning.
THE CASE FOR OPTIMISM
There’s optimism, and at the other end of the spectrum—pessimism. Some would argue that there is also realism, but I suspect that anyone who labels themselves as a realist is just a pessimist in disguise.
Put very simply, optimists have a positive approach to life, and pessimists have a rather negative one, but some elaboration on that bald statement would give a better picture of the differences.
Firstly, a subject over which we have no control—the weather.- If the pattern is that there are an equal number of rainy days and sunny ones, your optimist will expect the upcoming day to be one of the sunny ones, while your pessimist will be resigned to using the umbrella again. Admittedly the optimist will receive some disappointments, but the pessimist will dismiss a pleasant sunny day with the opinion that “We will pay for this later”.
Next, a situation over which we are completely in control—the assembly of a flat pack piece of furniture. The optimistic approach will follow the lines of, “Well, this should be a doddle. If I follow the instructions this will be fitted together in no time at all”. On the other hand, your pessimist will survey the contents and instructions with trepidation. “This all looks horribly complicated and I will probably not understand the instructions, and get it all wrong. I think I had better get some help with it”.
But all is not sweetness and light on the optimistic front - a healthy dose of cynicism would be advisable when encountering all of the following offers—
You get a message from a banker in some foreign country (Nigeria is a favourite venue) saying that he is custodian of a fortune in millions, of someone who has recently deceased, and of whom you have no knowledge, and that this fortune will go to the state unless you help him to retrieve it. With your help this can be split between you, and he is only after a very small proportion of the proceeds. Just get in touch right away to get the recovery process under way.
You get a message that you have won first prize in a lottery that you have never heard of, and certainly have never subscribed to. It is a lottery done on a ballot of email addresses, and yours has been chosen .Just get in touch with your fiduciary (trustee) agent with details of your bank so that they can give you the money.
Another message which comes in several disguises, says that for a very modest amount of your time—two or three hours of your time each week, you will be able to amass a larger income than you currently do with your full time occupation. All you have to do is pay up front for the secret of this amazing scheme.
If optimism overrides common sense, and you take up these fantastic offers, then in the first two instances you will, at least be worse off financially, with no means of redress, or worse still you will suffer from identity theft.
In the third case you will pay good money for a scheme which on most cases is unworkable, but will be contributing to the coffers of the perpetrator, who may well achieve the returns which he was promising you.
Although not wallet endangering, on the other side of the fence, the Pessimist also has temptations to worry about, and these involve worries. Not your ordinary everyday worries like which clothes to wear, or how many spoonfuls of sugar to put in your coffee, and things over which you have absolute control.
No, the pessimist is prone to worrying about what disasters might befall him, like getting stuck in a lift, or being kidnapped—things which are statistically against all the odds. Also the extreme pessimist will include the rest of society, either local, national, and international in his worries, on the potential disasters just waiting in the wings.
Finally, a hypothesis which is not clinically proven, but which is worthy of consideration. An optimistic, positive attitude is far more likely to produce positive results, than a negative, pessimistic one. Mainly because the optimist will encourage positive steps, while the pessimist will reject them as a waste of time.
optimism - a good thing?
Moderator: Herby Dice
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Peter Connelly
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Re: optimism - a good thing?
jimcee, you are clearly an optimist... Loved the flatpack scenario, especially 
Thanks again. Keep 'em coming...
Thanks again. Keep 'em coming...
The owls are not what they seem.
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canUsmellthat
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:23 pm
Re: optimism - a good thing?
Is there such a thing as an optomistic realist???
Re: optimism - a good thing?
Hiya Canu
I found some different links that may be helpful for answering your question:
http://www.laurenratliff.com/blog/2008/ ... -optimist/
http://www.mindpub.com/art546.htm
I found some different links that may be helpful for answering your question:
http://www.laurenratliff.com/blog/2008/ ... -optimist/
http://www.mindpub.com/art546.htm
La felicitá é come una farfalla
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khartoumteddy
- Posts: 391
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- Location: exile
Re: optimism - a good thing?
optimism theres a light at the end of the tunnell
realism;its an oncoming train
realistic optimism;i may be able to sqeeze up against the wall and survive.
truism;I shouldnt be daft enough to be in here anyway
TEDDY
realism;its an oncoming train
realistic optimism;i may be able to sqeeze up against the wall and survive.
truism;I shouldnt be daft enough to be in here anyway
TEDDY
Re: optimism - a good thing?
Excellent -Teddy, I wish I had thought of that myself.
Wisdom from the Sudan - rather unexpected, given their recent press.
Wisdom from the Sudan - rather unexpected, given their recent press.
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Sandy MacSeil
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- Location: Seil
Re: optimism - a good thing?
Hi Jimcee. That was a fine dissertation really. Though would you not define someone who has a well-stocked nuclear fallout shelter in his garden to be a pessimist?! You have, haven't you?!
Achone Achone! Pogue Mahone!
Re: optimism - a good thing?
All you people who hide behind pseudonyms !
So, Sandy McSeal has a red hirsuite countenance, and in all my time here on this sceptred isle, I have never come across anyone remotely resembling those features, though I must admit that beards are rather thicker on the ground here, than other places I have frequented.
However, to deal with the point raised about having a "well stocked" nuclear fallout shelter labels me as a pessimist.
Firstly, since the resolution of the Kennedy/Kruschov standoff, the said premisis has been the repository of an alcoholic cellar and general dumping ground for all things that I cannot bear to throw out.
So the idea of a well stocked howff is a bit wide of the mark, although in the event one would not be thirsty.
But dealing with the pessimist thing - Surely the pessimistic attitude to a radiation problem would be - it's going to affect us all and there is nothing I can do about it - we will all be dead, and probably not very enjoyably.
Whereas if you are an optimist (maybe a wee touch of realist here) - this is a possibility (how about Chernoble) and I would like to survive, so what can I do to make sure that I am prepared.
Therefore I would suggest that optimism, although expecting the best, accepts that things may not always go according go to plan, and has contingency plans in place for any setback.
So, Sandy McSeal has a red hirsuite countenance, and in all my time here on this sceptred isle, I have never come across anyone remotely resembling those features, though I must admit that beards are rather thicker on the ground here, than other places I have frequented.
However, to deal with the point raised about having a "well stocked" nuclear fallout shelter labels me as a pessimist.
Firstly, since the resolution of the Kennedy/Kruschov standoff, the said premisis has been the repository of an alcoholic cellar and general dumping ground for all things that I cannot bear to throw out.
So the idea of a well stocked howff is a bit wide of the mark, although in the event one would not be thirsty.
But dealing with the pessimist thing - Surely the pessimistic attitude to a radiation problem would be - it's going to affect us all and there is nothing I can do about it - we will all be dead, and probably not very enjoyably.
Whereas if you are an optimist (maybe a wee touch of realist here) - this is a possibility (how about Chernoble) and I would like to survive, so what can I do to make sure that I am prepared.
Therefore I would suggest that optimism, although expecting the best, accepts that things may not always go according go to plan, and has contingency plans in place for any setback.
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Sandy MacSeil
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Re: optimism - a good thing?
That sounds fine, Jim. I like the alcoholic cellar. When's the party?
It was just that you said
Good luck to you and don't forget to invite me to the party!
It was just that you said
And, having been around then too, I would say that most folk didn't think that it was statistically likely that they were going to need a nuclear bunker. Just pessimists did. But, whatever, it's all just a matter of semantics and mood and health.No, the pessimist is prone to worrying about what disasters might befall him, like getting stuck in a lift, or being kidnapped—things which are statistically against all the odds.
Good luck to you and don't forget to invite me to the party!
Achone Achone! Pogue Mahone!
Re: optimism - a good thing?
It is one of the drawbacks of this computer business and it's reliance on the internet, that one can compose an extensive erudite reply to a posting on a forum, and when it comes to the submission, you find that you have lost you connection,and all your efforts on the keyboard have disappeared into thin air. It's enough to turn one into a pessimist.
Anyway, I had a screed all lined up in reply to red haired Sandy to refute his arguments that only pessimists went the length of constructing nuclear fallout shelters, and when I came to submit it to the forum, my internet connection had been terminated (I am a slow typist - one finger).
However, as an optomist, I am hoping that I can get through this screed before my connection is terminated.
As it so happens, the construction of a nuclear fallout shelter was vying with the installation of solar panels, and in retrospect, with the way that energy prices have been hiked, I wish that solar panels had won the argument.
But at the time of decision making there were sabre rattlers who were threatening armagedon if their wishes were not respected, and even our own government , had contingency plans (and their own bunker) if things went pear shaped.
The pessimistic view was - if it happens, it happens, circumstances beyond my control - nothing I can do about it.
The optomistic viewpoint - I can maybe live to a ripe old age if I give myself a bolt hole (and maybe have an alcoholic cellar foreby).
Red haired Sandy felt like probably the majority that we are not going to see a nuclear holocaust (which is optomistic, or maybe just wishful thinking), but even the most "dyed in the wool" optomist is not averse to taking out a bit of insurance.
Anyway, I had a screed all lined up in reply to red haired Sandy to refute his arguments that only pessimists went the length of constructing nuclear fallout shelters, and when I came to submit it to the forum, my internet connection had been terminated (I am a slow typist - one finger).
However, as an optomist, I am hoping that I can get through this screed before my connection is terminated.
As it so happens, the construction of a nuclear fallout shelter was vying with the installation of solar panels, and in retrospect, with the way that energy prices have been hiked, I wish that solar panels had won the argument.
But at the time of decision making there were sabre rattlers who were threatening armagedon if their wishes were not respected, and even our own government , had contingency plans (and their own bunker) if things went pear shaped.
The pessimistic view was - if it happens, it happens, circumstances beyond my control - nothing I can do about it.
The optomistic viewpoint - I can maybe live to a ripe old age if I give myself a bolt hole (and maybe have an alcoholic cellar foreby).
Red haired Sandy felt like probably the majority that we are not going to see a nuclear holocaust (which is optomistic, or maybe just wishful thinking), but even the most "dyed in the wool" optomist is not averse to taking out a bit of insurance.
Re: optimism - a good thing?
This may seem an odd derparture from the usual in this forum lark, but I have decided to post a reply to my last submission, as I feel that my defence of the optimism in creating a fallout shelter was a bit thin.
Iwould like to put the blame for the construction of this edifice on a johnny called Lord Baden-Powell. For some peculiar reason we were never aquainted with his first name. Perhaps it was Algernon, or Rupert, or Frances or something similar that did not go well with the military position he held. Anyway Lord B-P was stationed with some of his troops in a place called Mafeking, which is somewhere in the outback of South Africa. Unfortunately for them, they were surrounded by a bunch of Boers who rather fancied taking over the place, so they set up a siege. Lord B-P was a bit short on manpower, so he hit on the wheeze if employing some of the youngsters as scouts to report on the goings-on of the Boers. This stand-off went on for some considerable time, and was eventually resolved when a large contingent of the British Army arrived on the scene and chased the nasty Boers away.
Lord B-P was very relieved at this outcome, so it bacame known as the Relief of Mafeking.
Moving on a bit now, Lord B-P mindful of his trusty scouts, thought it would be a good thing for the lads back home to enjoy some of the pleasures of this activity, and set up Scouting for Boys.
It took off like a house on fire, and troops were set up across the lenght and breadth of the land - and overseas too.
Mainly due to peer pressure I was enlisted into the local troop - 88th Glasgow, 1st Merrylee. Our troop was divided into patrols of between 6 and 8 members, and I was assigned to the Peewit patrol. I would have much preferred to be in the Curlew patrol, as a Curlew sounded a bit more like the thing, than a mamby-pamby Peewit, but unfortunately we were not given the choice when we enlisted. The other two patrols were also named after birds (for some reason that escapes me), but I cannot recall their names, which just shows how obsessed I was with the Curlews.
Being a scout meant that you wore a rather fetching hat (a bit like a Canadian Mountie) a neckerchief which was quite handy if you had forgotten your handkerchief, but not in front of the Scoutmaster, or even your Patrol Leader. We also had poles which had circular incisions which I think were used for measurement. And there was lots of rope about the place with which we mastered the technique of making knots. It was somehow implied that with all these poles and ropes with knots at strategic places, one could construct a makeshift bridge - although we never did. The thing to do was to master the different knots - the sheepshank, the bowline, the round turn and two half hitches, and one or two others, whose names I have conveniently forgotten. Once you could demonstrate that you were able to produce all these knots at the drop of a hat, you had passed your Tenderfoot exam and were one of the lads. There were further heights to be scaled with Second Class, and First Class grades and numerous special subjects like first aid, which allowed you to have your arm decorated with a lot of different badges - all good clean competitive stuff.
It was a little unfortunate that the troop that I joined had a gay Scoutmaster, and we all had the indignity at some time, to go through a private feel of the privates in his little office. I have never been able to understand just what satisfaction this activity gave to those so afflicted, and being charitable, will put it down to checking that we were all in the right branch of the service.
However, this is rather straying from the point of the fallout shelter, and I will conclude by saying that my time spent with 88th Glasgow inculcated me with the motto which Lord B-P held dear -"Be Prepared"
Iwould like to put the blame for the construction of this edifice on a johnny called Lord Baden-Powell. For some peculiar reason we were never aquainted with his first name. Perhaps it was Algernon, or Rupert, or Frances or something similar that did not go well with the military position he held. Anyway Lord B-P was stationed with some of his troops in a place called Mafeking, which is somewhere in the outback of South Africa. Unfortunately for them, they were surrounded by a bunch of Boers who rather fancied taking over the place, so they set up a siege. Lord B-P was a bit short on manpower, so he hit on the wheeze if employing some of the youngsters as scouts to report on the goings-on of the Boers. This stand-off went on for some considerable time, and was eventually resolved when a large contingent of the British Army arrived on the scene and chased the nasty Boers away.
Lord B-P was very relieved at this outcome, so it bacame known as the Relief of Mafeking.
Moving on a bit now, Lord B-P mindful of his trusty scouts, thought it would be a good thing for the lads back home to enjoy some of the pleasures of this activity, and set up Scouting for Boys.
It took off like a house on fire, and troops were set up across the lenght and breadth of the land - and overseas too.
Mainly due to peer pressure I was enlisted into the local troop - 88th Glasgow, 1st Merrylee. Our troop was divided into patrols of between 6 and 8 members, and I was assigned to the Peewit patrol. I would have much preferred to be in the Curlew patrol, as a Curlew sounded a bit more like the thing, than a mamby-pamby Peewit, but unfortunately we were not given the choice when we enlisted. The other two patrols were also named after birds (for some reason that escapes me), but I cannot recall their names, which just shows how obsessed I was with the Curlews.
Being a scout meant that you wore a rather fetching hat (a bit like a Canadian Mountie) a neckerchief which was quite handy if you had forgotten your handkerchief, but not in front of the Scoutmaster, or even your Patrol Leader. We also had poles which had circular incisions which I think were used for measurement. And there was lots of rope about the place with which we mastered the technique of making knots. It was somehow implied that with all these poles and ropes with knots at strategic places, one could construct a makeshift bridge - although we never did. The thing to do was to master the different knots - the sheepshank, the bowline, the round turn and two half hitches, and one or two others, whose names I have conveniently forgotten. Once you could demonstrate that you were able to produce all these knots at the drop of a hat, you had passed your Tenderfoot exam and were one of the lads. There were further heights to be scaled with Second Class, and First Class grades and numerous special subjects like first aid, which allowed you to have your arm decorated with a lot of different badges - all good clean competitive stuff.
It was a little unfortunate that the troop that I joined had a gay Scoutmaster, and we all had the indignity at some time, to go through a private feel of the privates in his little office. I have never been able to understand just what satisfaction this activity gave to those so afflicted, and being charitable, will put it down to checking that we were all in the right branch of the service.
However, this is rather straying from the point of the fallout shelter, and I will conclude by saying that my time spent with 88th Glasgow inculcated me with the motto which Lord B-P held dear -"Be Prepared"
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longshanks
Re: optimism - a good thing?
Oh dear, James; not a spelling mistake on the last word, I hope.
Shanker22 (Not oriffended, by choice)jimcee wrote:a private feel of the privates in his little office.
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khartoumteddy
- Posts: 391
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:04 pm
- Location: exile
Re: optimism - a good thing?
Jimcee.Its the spirit that counts
see the following link
http://www.st.lyrics.com/songs/t/tomleh ... 85518.html
TEDDY
see the following link
http://www.st.lyrics.com/songs/t/tomleh ... 85518.html
TEDDY
Re: optimism - a good thing?
There have been two responses to my discourse on "Scouting for Boys", which, I feel are due a bit of feedback.
Firstly, there is Longshanks who doubts my spelling ability. Admittably, it took me several minutes to fathom out what he was getting at. But to my knowledge, and those I have spoken to, on the subject, these contacts with higher authority were conducted while both parties were in full posession of all their clothing - nuff said.
Regarding the rejoinder from the emissary from the capital of the Sudan, I am afraid that I am at a loss, as my computer has failed to let me access the link he included, so darkness prevails on this one, which is a pity. If Mr Bear is prepared to elaborate on his link or supply me with a new computer, I will be delighted to respond.
And if anyone thinks that this "be prepared" motto is a bit of old codswallop, I have a piece on WW2 to refute it.
Firstly, there is Longshanks who doubts my spelling ability. Admittably, it took me several minutes to fathom out what he was getting at. But to my knowledge, and those I have spoken to, on the subject, these contacts with higher authority were conducted while both parties were in full posession of all their clothing - nuff said.
Regarding the rejoinder from the emissary from the capital of the Sudan, I am afraid that I am at a loss, as my computer has failed to let me access the link he included, so darkness prevails on this one, which is a pity. If Mr Bear is prepared to elaborate on his link or supply me with a new computer, I will be delighted to respond.
And if anyone thinks that this "be prepared" motto is a bit of old codswallop, I have a piece on WW2 to refute it.
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khartoumteddy
- Posts: 391
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:04 pm
- Location: exile
Re: optimism - a good thing?
Sorry link did not read correctly
hopefully should be
http://www.st.lyrics.com/songs/
then type tom lehrer
" be prepared "
is the songtitle
hopefully should be
http://www.st.lyrics.com/songs/
then type tom lehrer
" be prepared "
is the songtitle
Re: optimism - a good thing?
This is a reply to Khartoum Teddy-
Being one of these individuals with a large helping of curiosity, I always like following leads to see where it takes me.
Now I am going to relate a recent incident that happened to me - I was given an email address that I wished to contact, by a friend, and I duly posted off an email to him. Back it came as undeliverable. So I tried again and got the same message. I reported this to my friend, and his reply was "well it works for me, so make sure you have typed it correctly". This I did (exactly the same address), and again it came back as undeliverable. In some high dudgeon I phoned my friend and told him of my repeated failures. He asked me what I was using as the address, and I said MCheather@...... he said "hold on a minute", and came back a few seconds later to say "it should actually be MChazel@.........." and of course this worked perfectly.
I cite this incident, because I have tried to access both your links in both Internet Explorer and Mozilla Firefox with absolutely no success.
Internet Explorer's message is "Cannot Display - check address". while Firefox says "not found - and includes about 5 possible reasons including - check address".
I would be very grateful at this stage if anyone who reads these words were to try accessing the link www.st.lyrics.com (or the larger earlier version) to see whether it works for them.
If so where on earth am I going wrong?
Being one of these individuals with a large helping of curiosity, I always like following leads to see where it takes me.
Now I am going to relate a recent incident that happened to me - I was given an email address that I wished to contact, by a friend, and I duly posted off an email to him. Back it came as undeliverable. So I tried again and got the same message. I reported this to my friend, and his reply was "well it works for me, so make sure you have typed it correctly". This I did (exactly the same address), and again it came back as undeliverable. In some high dudgeon I phoned my friend and told him of my repeated failures. He asked me what I was using as the address, and I said MCheather@...... he said "hold on a minute", and came back a few seconds later to say "it should actually be MChazel@.........." and of course this worked perfectly.
I cite this incident, because I have tried to access both your links in both Internet Explorer and Mozilla Firefox with absolutely no success.
Internet Explorer's message is "Cannot Display - check address". while Firefox says "not found - and includes about 5 possible reasons including - check address".
I would be very grateful at this stage if anyone who reads these words were to try accessing the link www.st.lyrics.com (or the larger earlier version) to see whether it works for them.
If so where on earth am I going wrong?
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khartoumteddy
- Posts: 391
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:04 pm
- Location: exile
Re: optimism - a good thing?
try google
optimistically you`ll get a result
teddy
failing that whatever search you want for the artist
Tom Lehrer
The Track is
Be prepared.
As you probably realise computers are a bit of a mystery to me
optimistically you`ll get a result
teddy
failing that whatever search you want for the artist
Tom Lehrer
The Track is
Be prepared.As you probably realise computers are a bit of a mystery to me
Re: optimism - a good thing?
Well, for anyone else who wants to view Tom Lehrer's witty poem/song, it works if you type in Tom Lehrer on Google and you get a whole raft of possibilities. I chose one about a London Concert, and lo-and-behold, it gave a list of his offerings - among them "Be Prepared" which was the Scout's motto, and that link produced the words, but not the music.
Another concert was also produced with Scouts doing the acting, and always finished with the whole cast on stage singing "We're riding along on the crest of a wave". This show was produced by one Ralph Reader, if my memory serves me correctly, and it was reputed that he was also into the privates feeling business. What is it about Scouts? - Old Lord B-P would be turning in his grave if he knew the licence he had printed.
Another concert was also produced with Scouts doing the acting, and always finished with the whole cast on stage singing "We're riding along on the crest of a wave". This show was produced by one Ralph Reader, if my memory serves me correctly, and it was reputed that he was also into the privates feeling business. What is it about Scouts? - Old Lord B-P would be turning in his grave if he knew the licence he had printed.
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khartoumteddy
- Posts: 391
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:04 pm
- Location: exile
Re: optimism - a good thing?
remember jim scouts are not always right
custers told him there were no F@@@@@ Indians.
TEDDY
custers told him there were no F@@@@@ Indians.
TEDDY
Re: optimism - a good thing?
No but the Boy Scout Association cannot be held responsible along the way for every cock-up, especially when it is out of their baliwick.
That fellow Custer wants to wash his mouth out with soap.
(Misguided) Optimistic view - Indians hereabouts are pretty thin on the ground, and if we come across any, they will probably want to play us at football.
Pessimistic view - This neck of the woods is absolutely infested with a particularly vicious, murderous bunch of Indians, who are running short on scalps.
Realistic view - We seem to have done something to annoy them;
That fellow Custer wants to wash his mouth out with soap.
(Misguided) Optimistic view - Indians hereabouts are pretty thin on the ground, and if we come across any, they will probably want to play us at football.
Pessimistic view - This neck of the woods is absolutely infested with a particularly vicious, murderous bunch of Indians, who are running short on scalps.
Realistic view - We seem to have done something to annoy them;
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