Scotland, a foreign country?

[Innes Newton]

Did you all miss me? I’ve been away, went abroad to another country. When I arrived I was greeted with their bright national flag fluttering in the sunshine and it wasn’t long before I found myself wanting to be served in a shop. The two people in front of me had been nattering away in their language which I could never learn in a thousand Sundays, but when it was my turn at the till and I said, “Hello” they immediately switched to English with a big smile. Getting around was reasonably easy although all the signs were written in their language, with helpful, English translation below.

I must admit it they made it very pleasant for a foreigner to be in their country. But you know what, for all their patriotism, nationalism, their flags flying everywhere, their language being so hard for foreigners to understand, I never heard one Welsh person moaning about being ruled by Westminster and how Wales should be an independent country. They have their own Welsh parliament and they have devolved powers, but where were all the people complaining bitterly that they deserved more? Where were all the Welsh nationalists saying that they are hard done by?

It was nice to go to Wales, a part of Britain with its own traditions, culture, language, flag, government, where people are concentrating on getting on together, and not bitterly fighting a civil ‘war’ to break up the UK. There were two nuclear power stations near by, a large offshore wind farm and a couple of times RAF jets flew overhead practicing their defence of the nation. All this seemed to sit comfortably with the inhabitants.

There’s something in the psyche of some Scots that makes them want to blame everyone else for their own misery. It’s time they stood up as a proud nation, proud to be an integral part of the UK like the Welsh. There must be something different in the Welsh character to some Scots. After all fewer than one in five Welsh want to see an independent Scotland.

[NickB]

I never heard one Welsh person moaning about being ruled by Westminster and how Wales should be an independent country.

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How do you know? By your own admission, you don't understand a word of Welsh

[Innes Newton]

That facts are that fewer than one in five Welsh want independence, and also that fewer than one in five Welsh think Scotland should go for independence.

My question was, what is it in the psyche of some Scots that makes them feel so miserable and hard done by to be so different to the Welsh?

[NickB]

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And my question is, what on earth does it have to do with the Welsh?

Scotland does not seek to interfere in Welsh affairs. They are purely a matter for the Welsh. Let them do likewise.

Welsh opinion on Scottish independence - or at least, Welsh opinion as reported by the unionist media - is a matter of supreme indifference to me.

[Innes Newton]

And my question is, what on earth does it have to do with the Welsh?

It's about togetherness, not selfishness. We all do live in the UK. Only a very small potion of it want to break it up to everyone else's detriment. That's negative thinking.

[NickB]

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Innes, do you recognise Scotland as a country ?

[Innes Newton]

I'm British. Like you. My passport says UK, Great Britain. So does yours. The country I consider I live in is called Britain, Great Britain, the United Kingdom. I see Scotland as a country within a country (the UK). It's not my fault, or yours, that you were born British. I like it the way it is, and I am more than disappointed (disgusted isn't too strong a word) that a small, noisy, moaning and whinging bunch who can't appreciate what they have, only what they don't have, want to split up 'my' country of which I love all parts equally.

[NickB]

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So you don't recognise Scotland as a country and you regard its inhabitants (or at least, over 40% of them) as a 'small, noisy, moaning and whinging bunch'

OK, so how do you feel about Article 1 Section 1 of the United Nations International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights ?

All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

[Innes Newton]

And what of the rights of the British?

[Innes Newton]

No, I am not a member of BNP or the EDL. I am just British, like the rest of you. I'm not a member of, and have never been a member of a group anything more sinister, political or activist than Seil Chat. I'll bet my sheet is cleaner than yours.

Bu the way I was speaking to a Scot who works in Aberdeen in the oil industry this afternoon and I asked him whether he would vote Yes or No. He said he was a definite No, and he reckoned about 75% of the population in Aberdeen would vote No. He said, " In fact if there was a Yes vote I would sell my house and move south". He had no doubts an independent Scotland would go down hill fast.

[NickB]

". . . if there was a Yes vote I would sell my house and move south".

He's a moron then. The oil company he works for will still be based in Aberdeen.

Do you know a lot of morons?

[Innes Newton]

When your mood brightens perhaps you will appreciate what a moronic comment that was.

[NickB]

When your mood brightens perhaps you will appreciate what a moronic comment that was.

Your alleged 'Scot in Aberdeen' will be deliberately walking out of a lucrative job in the oil industry because he can't cope with a change of government.

Do you deny that that would be moronic?

The oil company he currently works for will have no problem filling his lucrative job with someone who is prepared to carry on living in Aberdeen.

Thinking along the same lines, I assume that you yourself would not countenance living in an independent Scotland and in the event of a YES vote will abandon your alleged wish to move to Seil ?

[Innes Newton]

He wasn't an alleged Scot in Aberdeen. He is a Scot in Aberdeen. And he is no moron. Yes he can continue his lucrative work in Aberdeen but he doesn't have to live in Scotland to do it. Like so many oil workers he is saying he will move from Scotland, where taxes and interest rates will rise, to live and pay his taxes and spend his earnings outside Scotland.

It's not moronic, it is just what an ambitious young man will do as a way to maximise his earnings. As I said independence will just speed up the brain drain, the high earners, the ones who contribute most in tax, from Scotland. And if they go to rUK the swing will fuel a two tier Britain, with Scotland being the poorer part.

....and if I do get to enjoy many more years, once I have built up an offshore private pension pot it may benefit me to at last become benefit dependent in Scotland, and at last take back some of what I contributed to the country, in the form of free health, exempt of means testing.

[NickB]

Why will moving to Engand 'maximise his earnings'?

He will be paying to travel to and from Aberdeen, paying for prescriptions, tuition fees if he has kids . . .

Still sounds moronic to me, a pointless soundbite.

[NickB]

Re. Your plans fora stress-free old age in an independent Scotland, with free personal care etc . . .

You obviously believe an independent Scotland will be economically successful and will continue to be able to afford its 'socialist' policies if you plan to hypocritically come and take advantage of them.

How exactly does this square with your prophecies of economic doom?

[Innes Newton]

Why will moving to Engand 'maximise his earnings'?

He will be paying to travel to and from Aberdeen, paying for prescriptions, tuition fees if he has kids . . .

Still sounds moronic to me, a pointless soundbite.

Taxes will be lower in 'thatcherite' rUK which will more than compensate for travel costs which his company will pay anyway. Having to pay prescription charges, and thinking about whether or not he will have to pay university fees if he has kids and when they and worry about old age later.

I, on the other hand, am closer to a point in life when I would like to lay down my tools and enjoy a retirement, and certain provisions in Scotland might make financial sense for me to take advantage of, in the same way that foreign students go to Scotland for a free education. Yes, it's true I might become a drain on Scotland's resources, but I suspect my days will have ended before all the money has gone. And it's true I will be the opposite of what Scotland needs compared to the young people escaping to a more prosperous future outside Scotland.

[NickB]

I suspect my days will have ended before all the money has gone.

So you admit that an independent Scotland is financially viable ?

Well, that's a start. Previously you have forecast utter doom.

[Innes Newton]

Previously you have forecast utter doom.

I didn't say that, but I have said you are being led towards a Fool's Paradise where the reality will shatter your illusions. And I'm sure a lot would say that if you end up worse off than you are now that's a little bit of a disaster.

So you admit that an independent Scotland is financially viable ?

Where did I say that? Of course an independent Scotland can exist. How successful it will be compared to rUK is another matter. But typically socialist nations next to capitalist neighbours fare very poorly. How do you predict Scotland can shine and succeed against a powerful neighbour?

[NickB]

How do you predict Scotland can shine and succeed against a powerful neighbour?