Seil Chat

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Headline in the Guardian this evening.




Headline in the Herald, February 1979

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Proof yet again that socialists don't comprehend business or economics. And that's why so much business is warning it may walk out of Scotland with their jobs, if there is a Yes vote.

Alex Salmond must be overjoyed that the MH370 story has grabbed the world's attention. He's lucky most people haven't noticed the other headline, "Scotland plunged 12 billion into the red" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... iches.html

Innes Newton wrote:Proof yet again that socialists don't comprehend business or economics. And that's why so much business is warning it may walk out of Scotland with their jobs, if there is a Yes vote.l

Sorry Innes, but you seem to be missing my point.

In the 1979 referendum (which you may not remember but which I also voted in) the Tory press told the same lies and made the same threats about the collapse of Scottish business and the Scottish economy. The (rigged) result was NO and devolution did not happen. During the next 18 years preceding the 1997 referendum all the dreadful things the Daily Express warned would happen in the event of devolution happened under the status quo.

My post has nothing to do with socialism, it's just a warning that the same old lies and threats have been trotted out for over 40 years and are still being used today to try to bully the Scottish electorate.

As for the last sentence of yours quoted sbove:

No business is saying it will 'walk out of Scotland'.

Please give me three quote where business leaders have actually said that (or words to that effect)/ And I mean words from business leaders, not words put into their mouths by the gutter press.

(I'll give you a start - Michelle Mone. As far as I know she is the only business leader who has actually said she would move her company in the event of a YES vote, and that was in 2012 - Ultimo since then has made record losses, so she isn't much of a businesswoman anyway).

Why not have a look at the Business for Scotland site and see what real Scottish business people are saying about the subject?

Innes Newton wrote: . . . the other headline, "Scotland plunged 12 billion into the red" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... iches.html

I am astounded that a person such as yourself who claims to be well-read and educated slavishly regurgitates Daily Mail headlines as though they have been handed down on tablets of stone by some political deity.

A drop in receipts from North Sea oil was the sole reason for the increase in Scotland's deficit.

Do you know WHY tax receipts from oil revenues receipts were down in 2011 / 2012 ?

And that's why so much business is warning it may walk out of Scotland with their jobs, if there is a Yes vote.

Some would choose to do it, some would have to do it.

Don't ask me who all the businesses are. Some are named here such as Standard Life, Aggrekko, Weir, Royal Bank of Scotland, Lloyds, Barclays, but the latest Survation poll of 100 businesses found 36%, or 1 in 3 companies, could relocate away from Scotland if there is a YES vote. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -vote-poll

As for why tax receipts were down? Yes, less oil was produced. Whether that was due to problems or not, it's irrelevant. It doesn't pay the bills.

Innes Newton wrote:
Don't ask me who all the businesses are. Some are named here such as Standard Life, Aggrekko, Weir, Royal Bank of Scotland, Lloyds, Barclays.

Sorry, but I AM asking you who they are. Otherwise you - por the Daily Mail - might have just made it all up.

Oh whoopsie, looks like you/they did.

In fact not one of the businesses you mention in the quote above has said they will 'walk out of Scotland', which is what you claimed.


Standard Life

Here's the letter Standard Life sent out to people who wrote to them cancelling/transferring their accounts after the initial press stories appeared :

Standard Life wrote:“Dear [redacted]

Thank you for your email of [date].

We are disappointed that our statement has caused you concern.

To clarify our position, Standard Life currently has no plans to relocate or transfer parts of our operations out of Scotland. What we have announced are precautionary measures to ensure we can provide continuity and protect the interests of our customers, wherever they live in the UK (and around the world), in the event of Scotland becoming independent.

We have no desire to move any aspect of our operations unless absolutely necessary. We have been based in Scotland for 189 years. We are proud of our Scottish heritage and believe that Scotland is a good place from which to run our business and compete around the world. We very much hope this can continue.

Standard Life is strictly non-political and will not seek to influence people on how they should vote. However, we have a duty and a responsibility to understand the implications of independence for our four million UK customers, our shareholders, our people and other stakeholders in our business. We will take whatever action is necessary to protect their interests.

Yours sincerely

Gerry Grimstone
Chairman”

Nothing there about moving the whole company South of the border on 19th September.

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Weir Group

Meanwhile, Weir Group, far from threatening to leave, have in fact commissioned an independent report into the implications of independence, and will not be taking any public stance until this has been published.

Scottish independence: Business giant plans report

Scotsman wrote:Weir Group, one of six FTSE 100 companies with headquarters in Scotland, has commissioned an independent economic consultancy to assess the potential advantages and pitfalls should Scots vote to end their 307-year union with the rest of the UK. Weir intends to publicly circulate its findings by the beginning of April.

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Aggreko

And so on to another company you mention, Aggreko. Again, at no point thave they said they will pul out of Scotland. Have a look at this Reuters article to see what then actually did say :

Aggreko warns Scottish independence could split its UK business

So - it might move part of its business South. Consider this though - if trading conditions are such that this is required then surely it is equally likely that businesses currently headquartered in England but with substantial trade with Scotland will seek to open Scottish branches post-independence.

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Lloyds Bank and Lloyds Banking Group

are already headquartered in London - perhaps you should have checked that before you threw them into your scare list.

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Barclays

Let's look at Barclays though . . . check out this BBC article:

Scottish independence: Barclays chief says he can work with 'Yes' vote

(Ooh, bad boy . . . that wasn't what Ozzy and Dave wanted him to say at all)

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RBS

And so that just leaves RBS from your list of companies you alleged were preparing to 'walk out of' Scotland. Well, it is true that Mark Carney said RBS 'might' have to move to England, but the bank has been remarkably silent since then.

Scottish Independence: RBS silent on England move

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Of course Cameron and Osbourne are doing their best to get their business pals onside . . . the amazing thing is that so few have so far said anything that is in any way damaging to YES.

By mindlessly regurgitating the gutter press' sensationalist spin on a few sober and very limited statements by a small handful of businessmen you are simply destroying any credibility you might have as a proponent of the laughingly named 'Better Together' campaign. Threatening Scots is NOT the way to win hearts and minds in this campaign.

Innes Newton wrote:

As for why tax receipts were down? Yes, less oil was produced. Whether that was due to problems or not, it's irrelevant. It doesn't pay the bills.

Actually, most of the reduction in revenue was not due to any natural fall in production or drop in price. It was due to two things:

a) George Osbourne's 'windfall' tax

b) oil company profits being set against future investments (which reduces tax owed for that year)