How much will it cost Scotland to become independent?

[PentlandPirate II]

How much will it cost Scotland to become independent?

Did anyone find the answer in the White Paper?

[NickB]

How much will it cost Scotland to become independent?

Did anyone find the answer in the White Paper?

Who cares. It will be worth it.

[PentlandPirate II]

I'll leave it at that.

[NickB]

I'll leave it at that.

I wish you would.

[Innes Newton]

Is Scotland now going for DevoMax? All the signs are that this is now what Alex Salmond is going for, not independence. He's a master at shirking the facts. If DevoMax is now his objective he doesn't have to answer the question, "How much it will cost Scotland to become independent?"

[NickB]

Is Scotland now going for DevoMax? All the signs are that this is now what Alex Salmond is going for, not independence. He's a master at shirking the facts. If DevoMax is now his objective he doesn't have to answer the question, "How much it will cost Scotland to become independent?"

It's more 'indy-lite' than devo-max

A good start on the road to the Scottish Socialist Republic.

Independence is a process. 1997 was the start. September 198th 2014 is the next step.

[Innes Newton]

A good start on the road to the Scottish Socialist Republic

OMG! That will scare so many people. Especially business. The Scottish Socialist Republic. A step back in time to the good old economies of the Soviet Bloc. No wonder you don't want NATO there. Are you some sort of Communist mole?

[NickB]

.
Wow, it's so easy to push your buttons.

What Scotland becomes after independence will be up to the Scots.

Perhaps there will be a Tory revival.

Whatever happens, it will be decided in Scotland by the Scottish people.

Just like other countries.

[Innes Newton]

I'm curious as to what makes an Englishman hate the country of his birth so much. What is it that your country did to you that so alienated you? Were you driven out because you found your own brand of socialism incompatible in society further south? Is it really your dream that Scotland becomes like a Marxist/Socialist Republic of bankrupt Argentina? Is that why you have an avatar of communist Che Guevara with blue and white across his face as if Mel Gibson was playing his part in a movie?

For me I have no mixed up ideals. I'm half English, half Scots. I've lived in both for long parts of my life, and in North, South, and West parts of both, as well as in Wales. For me the United Kingdom, Great Britain is my country and I will fight to preserve it in whatever way I can. When living in Scotland, even with a Scots mother as I had, I know that to a Teuchter, anyone born in England will always be English, and will never be regarded as a Scot.

To me that's not an issue. I fight to preserve the UK for English, the Scots, the Welsh and the Irish.

This independence lark is a farce, a huge waste of money, if quantified by the Yes Campaign then it must be at a cost they dare not mention. It's divisive, it creates racial hatred, it will cost jobs, and I'm afraid independence will no good for the rest of the UK or an independent Scotland.

I never ever met a socialist who had any care what things cost, or any idea how to run a successful business. Money grows on trees doesn't it? Keep handing it out! A socialist government of an independent Scotland will seal Scotland's fate. Socialists won't care. They'll still believe the hand outs will keep coming. But one day they won't. Independence is forever. They better be careful what they wish for.

(BTW This is personal. But it's personal about me and my country, and is not intended to be insulting to any individual or peoples)

[NickB]

.
Every country has the right to self-determination.

Most countries get along just fine governing themselves.

What exactly is it that makes you think the Scots do not have that right and should not have that opportunity?

Even David Cameron agrees Scots should be given the choice and that it is a matter for the Scots. You however seem to resent the entire referendum process and treat it as a personal affront when in fact it really has very little to do with you.

If it is so important to you then put your money where your mouth is, move to Scotland and gain the right to vote in the referendum. If you are not prepared to do that then your opinion carries little worth.

[Innes Newton]

You however seem to resent the entire referendum process and treat it as a personal affront when in fact it really has very little to do with you.

If it is so important to you then put your money where your mouth is, move to Scotland and gain the right to vote in the referendum. If you are not prepared to do that then your opinion carries little worth.

Spot on. I do resent it. And it does have everything to do with me. My country is the United Kingdom, like it says on my Passport, and I resent the fact that a parochial bunch in one part of the country I live in want to break up the land of my birth. I do not want to see an independent Scotland in the same way I do not want to see an independent Yorkshire or an independent nation of Shetland and Orkney.

Tell me, how would a typical Yes campaigner feel about Shetland and Orkney breaking away from the rest of an Independent Scotland, and the implications that would have?

[NickB]

.

' . . . a parochial bunch in one part of the country I live in . . .

Scotland is a country, not a region or part of England as you seem to think.

As a country Scotland has the right to self determination.

The Scottish people may choose not to exercise that right, but it is 100% their choice. Although it is nothing to do with you I think you can rest assured that you have probably had an influence on the result, albeit an infinitesimally small one.

Your comments about 'a parochial bunch . . . in one part of MY country' are some of the most insulting, misbegotten nonsense it has been my misfortune to read in the entire course of this debate.

So . . . I am sure you will be pleased to know that your incoherent, intolerant, ill-informed and self-centred posts on here have helped bring at least one 'Don't Know' down off the fence and into the YES camp.

Keep it up, recruiting sergeant for YES Innes Newton.

[Innes Newton]

Scotland is a country, not a region or part of England as you seem to think.

No, I don't think that and I have never said that. You are either failing to read what I have written, or deliberately trying to misquote me.

in one part of MY country' are some of the most insulting, misbegotten nonsense it has been my misfortune to read in the entire course of this debate.

You just don't get it do you? My national identity is British (it's actually your's too). "Parochial" is exactly what some people are and it is not insulting to call them that if they display those characteristics.

So . . . I am sure you will be pleased to know that your incoherent, intolerant, ill-informed and self-centred posts on here have helped bring at least one 'Don't Know' down off the fence and into the YES camp.

I thought you were already in the Yes camp.

intolerant, ill-informed and self-centred posts

You're convinced this only applies to me, and not to you, are you?

[NickB]

I thought you were already in the Yes camp.

I'm not talking about myself.

Keep up the good work

[Innes Newton]

It's only natural that some of the people will make up their minds before the referendum date, and some may be influenced by what they see on Seil Chat, in the media elsewhere, and in the private space of their own minds. If I have supposedly persuaded one person into the Yes camp, you might just appreciate that that is consistent with predictions, because I can think of three 'Don't Knows' that made up their minds to vote 'NO', hinged on what they had seen on Seil Chat, and argued by yourself.

[NickB]

It's only natural that some of the people will make up their minds before the referendum date, and some may be influenced by what they see on Seil Chat, in the media elsewhere, and in the private space of their own minds. If I have supposedly persuaded one person into the Yes camp, you might just appreciate that that is consistent with predictions, because I can think of three 'Don't Knows' that made up their minds to vote 'NO', hinged on what they had seen on Seil Chat, and argued by yourself.

Oh really?

I didn't realise Seil Chat was so widely read in deepest Englandshire.

[Innes Newton]

No, these are people on your doorstep.

[NickB]

No, these are people on your doorstep.

I don't believe you.

[Innes Newton]

SeilChat doesn't allow them to remain anonymous anymore so they probably won't tell you here.

[NickB]

SeilChat doesn't allow them to remain anonymous anymore so they probably won't tell you here.

Fictitious identities, much like yourself, don't have a vote.

Don't Knows are moving in their tens of thousands steadily and inexorably to YES.

The polls say so, the bookies say so.

Resistance is futile.