Seil Chat

Opposing implies any of the following:

writing a letter of objection,
lobbying MP - MEP - MSP - Counciler,
displaying posters etc.

Thanks MacB ("Members may now create polls - fill yer boots!") for fixing the problem.

Maurice Shanks (Mori by choice)

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I've just posted the minutes of the November Community Council meeting on the site and note the following for information:

When the application goes live, Seil and Easdale Community Council will carry out a survey and use the results to inform its representation to Argyll & Bute Council. The community council is confident that it can do so within the 28-day deadline from the date of the application being lodged, and the Chair stated that everyone on the edited electoral roll will be surveyed.

Longshanks, you are a most articulate individual, but I wonder why you seek to establish the mood of the people and therefore ask of Seil Chat members, "Will you, as an individual, actually do anything to oppose the wind farm, such writing a letter of objection, lobbying MP - MEP - MSP - Councillor, displaying posters etc, ?" when one might reasonably suggest the first question should be a Yes / No / No opinion poll to, "Are you in favour of the windfarm?"

Is this to make the point many may oppose the wind farm, but there is a danger the majority of those who oppose it will do fanny all about it to make sure their opinion counts? Is there a danger the silent majority will be ignored because they are too lazy and assume someone else will do it for them?

Hi Pentland,

Pentlandpirate wrote:one might reasonably suggest the first question should be a Yes / No / No opinion poll to, "Are you in favour of the windfarm?"

Good point.
My thinking was that no-one would answer "yes". I've heard no-one around here banging on about how we need a windfarm (well not for a couple of years anyway). The prevailing attitudes appear to be either anti or not really bothered.
Regarding your second point; if someone is against the windfarm and bothers not to take any type of objecting action then they'll deserve what they get.
One of they keys to defeating the proposal will be a large volume of letters of objection. I know this forum is unrepresentative of the population of Seil as a whole but it will be encouraging for the members of PACT (who are putting in a big effort and giving up a lot of their time) if, say, as many as twenty of our small group express here the fact that they aim to be active.

How do you feel about the CC idea to do an opinion poll based on the electoral roll?
This worries me slightly in that it excludes those who own property here but are not voters here.
More importantly it is most unfair on the younger generation. They are the ones who will have to live with the windfarm for much longer than us pensioners etc. Just because you're not eighteen shouldn't mean you can't have your say on the future of your home environment.
Its easy enough to allow them a vote - distribute voting papers to the Primary Schools and give papers to the OHS pupils as they get on the morning buses.

Poll Shanks (Borscht by choice)

Hang on a second.
I've just read MacB;s post quoting from the CC Minutes.
"Everyone from the edited Electoral Roll"
......that's going to exclude scores or even hundreds of people who live here !!!!!! What on earth are they thinking about.
It should, at the very least, be the full Eletoral Roll.

Gerry Shanks (Mandering by choice)

longshanks wrote:More importantly it is most unfair on the younger generation. They are the ones who will have to live with the windfarm for much longer than us pensioners etc. Just because you're not eighteen shouldn't mean you can't have your say on the future of your home environment.
Its easy enough to allow them a vote - distribute voting papers to the Primary Schools and give papers to the OHS pupils as they get on the morning buses.

Excellent idea - although if you were at the PACT meeting you will recall that the only pro-wind voice was from a younger person. I suspect there might be a much bigger 'youth vote' in favour of the proposal due to the relentless propaganda that wind is good and the only way forward and the government assertion that objecting to windfarms is selfish nimbyism. Plenty of young folk see the baby boomer generation as selfish people who have squandered their kids' inheritance both fiscally and environmmentally, and I for one can see their point.

If we were to give pupils a vote then perhaps it would be better if they were polled after they have had a chance to debate the issues at length in class. It would make an excellent social studies topic.

longshanks wrote:Hang on a second.
I've just read MacB;s post quoting from the CC Minutes.
"Everyone from the edited Electoral Roll"
......that's going to exclude scores or even hundreds of people who live here !!!!!! What on earth are they thinking about.
It should, at the very least, be the full Eletoral Roll.

Gerry Shanks (Mandering by choice)

Yes - what exactly is the edited electoral roll? That phrase puzzled me.

The "edited" electoral roll is what the Council can sell to companies who want to bother folks by sending them junk mail. There's an "opt out" box on the voter registration form, and if you tick it your name's "edited out". Probably lots of people do this. You can go into the Council offices and copy out the electoral roll by hand, and presumably this is the "unedited" one. A bit laborious, but better than paying for the incomplete roll and thereby missing out legit voters.

It doesn't worry me in the least that using the electoral roll would exclude "those who own property here but are not voters here". It is we who live here, and vote here, who would have to live with the windfarm day in and day out, not just for the odd week of the year.

NickB wrote: I suspect there might be a much bigger 'youth vote' in favour of the proposal .............If we were to give pupils a vote then perhaps it would be better if they were polled after they have had a chance to debate the issues at length.

Edited but the gist of MacB;s point is clear

Hang on there!
You're saying that the youth of Seil need to be "re-educated" (come on; that is your implication; re-educated because you fear that they may not vote the way you want).
Seil is not some kind of authoritarian society (well Easdale may be but not Seil).
1. The younger inhabitants of Seil should be allowed to express the views as to the future environment of their home locality.
2. They should be given the respect to follow their own opinions and judgements.
3. They should be given the respect that they have discussed the issues at length. They're not brainless just because they're not eighteen.

Demo Shanks (Athenian by choice)

Beetlejuice wrote:The "edited" electoral roll is what the Council can sell to companies who want to bother folks by sending them junk mail. There's an "opt out" box on the voter registration form, and if you tick it your name's "edited out". Probably lots of people do this.

Precisely Beetlejuice.
Those who hate junk mail or who are unhappy for their personal details to be available to any Tom, Dick or Harry will have "opted out" and will, therefore not be on the Edited Electoral Roll.
I would guess that should the CC use the Edited Electoral Roll then probably at least half of those who live here will not be balloted as they "opted out".
That would be outrageous and totally undemocratic.
Any member of the CC read this forum?
If so...your response please.

Cuckoo Shanks (Swiss Roll by choice)

longshanks wrote:

NickB wrote: I suspect there might be a much bigger 'youth vote' in favour of the proposal .............If we were to give pupils a vote then perhaps it would be better if they were polled after they have had a chance to debate the issues at length.

Edited but the gist of MacB;s point is clear
Hang on there!
You're saying that the youth of Seil need to be "re-educated" (come on; that is your implication; re-educated because you fear that they may not vote the way you want).
Seil is not some kind of authoritarian society (well Easdale may be but not Seil).
1. The younger inhabitants of Seil should be allowed to express the views as to the future environment of their home locality.
2. They should be given the respect to follow their own opinions and judgements.
3. They should be given the respect that they have discussed the issues at length. They're not brainless just because they're not eighteen.

Demo Shanks (Athenian by choice)

I hope you are not wilfully misinterpreting the point I was making, Longshanks. This ain't Athens and if you don't want to involve the school then the point may well be academic (if you'll pardon the pun), as it is unlikely that anyone else is actually going to organise or run your proposed poll. Are you? Will we see you at the bus stop with a clipboard, handing out questionnaires? And frankly I doubt if many teenagers have 'discussed the issues at length' . After all, many of the adult population have no strong opinions one way or another and it is not a major topic of pub conversation.

But to end this post on a more positive note - if any High School pupils are reading this - perhaps you want to organise this survey Longshanks is proposing yourselves and present it to the Community Council. If you are concerned one way or the other about the proliferation of windfarms then it would be good to hear your views, and Longshanks is right - your voices should be heard as you are the ones who are going to have to live in the world your elders are creating. And of course you can also comment on the matter here, on the PACT website or indeed on Rory Young's own West Coast Renewables site.

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As of today 225 views but only 19 votes . . . flawed poll, apathy or some other reason?

Remember, it is a closed poll - no-one (me and other admins or moderators included) can see who votes for which option.

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21 votes recorded now . . . a bit unrepresentative, but encouraging that over 70% of respondents intend to actively protest.