Seil Chat

As for fish-ranches "..covering hundreds of square miles..." - this is a ludicrous concept and just not needed...

What makes it ludicrous?

Ok then, maybe I was wrong - can you explain it to me please...I take it you're gonna cordon off a 250 square mile piece of the sea and maintain a "herd"/ "school" (whatever you like) of fish within that enclosure...So what about water quality, wild organisms already living there, migratory animals, environmental vagaries etc etc...and what species will you keep there??? There're many to choose from: Demersal, Pelagics - is 250 square miles enough/ too much room...is it not cheaper just to go fishing for them instead - plenty reproductive and healthy stock already in the sea...

Cripes!
Pentland has actually come up with a brilliant and practical idea.
As we all know global warming will soon melt all the ice in the Arctic. This gives us a fantastic opportunity which will benefit mankind considerably.
1. We string a net between Newfoundland and Norway and another between Alaska and Russia. A vast area of freshly opened ocean is, thus, safely enclosed; we stock it with cod and, bingo, we have the mother of all fishfarms; probably enough to feed the world so we can stop fishing everywhere else.
Not possible ? Even as recently as the early part of the last century we thought it was impossible for man to walk on the moon; then along comes von Braun and the V2 rocket (the rest is history).
2. Coincidental with this development caused by the melting of the ice and the massive temperature increases which, judging by those we are seeing now here on Seil, are just around the corner, we can start a huge prairie farm covering the whole of Greenland growing wheat for our buns and beef for our burgers. Starvation eliminated in two easy steps !
3. and, blimey, we can the drill for oil all over the newly exposed seabeds and landmasses. Energy crisis averted.
So, lets have no more of this negativity aimed at PP's brilliant idea and lets all learn to love global warming for saving mankind from starvation.

Longshanks37 (giving up poetry by choice)

Hang on
If were all to be part of the Longshanks experimental underwater fish farm
Water levels are rising everywhere

How do we stop Pirates taking over the Empire

Or do we send in the Nick McB fishery protection fleet

:jack :English Flag.

Teddy

I take it you're gonna cordon off a 250 square mile piece of the sea and maintain a "herd"/ "school" (whatever you like) of fish within that enclosure...

I'm not a scientist, but I'm sure I'm not the only person that imagines that instead of nets someone might develope an underwater 'wall of sound' using sonar or other sound/electronic waves that could keep fish back, but not obstruct navigation by vessels. Provided you made a large ring of these devices, around an area of relatively smooth seabed, and not too deep water, you might be able to make a huge area fish do not stray from. You might be able to add in a sound wave that deters predators too. Who is to say you could not add in harmonious waves of 'fish music' that may encourage specific breeds to be content and reproduce and feed enthusiastically. I am constantly amazed by what mankind can achieve when he wants to.

Anyway what gave fishermen the right to plunder the seas? Don't WE, as Mankind, own the oceans? Imagine if folk rampaged across the land taking what they want, killing any species they came across, we wouldn't tolerate it would we? What gives fishermen the right to go and take what they like from the open seas irrespective of anyone elses wishes?

I'm not a scientist

You don't say!

...however there may already be scientists on this forum who's responses you choose to rubbish.

around an area of relatively smooth seabed, and not too deep water, you might be able to make a huge area fish do not stray from

So ...already this preposterous scheme is limited to smooth sea bed which rules out any species that prefers rough ground..................and not too deep, which rules out any deep water fish or fish that overwinters in deep water.........................and by fencing off an area you rule out the chance of migratory fish reaching their spawning grounds.

Absolute nonsense, hair-brained, pie-in-the-sky rubbish.

Maybe we can get an amnesty for Phil Spector to help us with the wall of sound?

Which scientist have I rubbished?

So ...already this preposterous scheme is limited to smooth sea bed which rules out any species that prefers rough ground..................and not too deep, which rules out any deep water fish or fish that overwinters in deep water.........................and by fencing off an area you rule out the chance of migratory fish reaching their spawning grounds

You develop these ideas one at a time, taking the easier options first (Man set his sights on the Moon first, not Pluto). It would probably be more difficult to create an artificial boundary over rough or deep ground, but is that much different to why land farmers don't tend to fence the mountain tops or bogs? Sheep, cattle and deer would of course prefer not to be penned in, and might take off to the high ground in summer and low (deep) ground in winter. When farmed, these animals are restricted in their movement, forced to live off the food in their field, prevented from migrating. And most seem to thrive on it. But it has been down to farmers being prepared to experiment and try ideas, studying and learning as they go. They've created sustainabilty. I don't see why the sea has to be viewed so totally differently to the land. What positive thing can it be said fishermen are doing about their situation?

Just because the "Wall of Sound" idea is completely without scientific basis and technological capability doesn't mean it's not a great way to sort out the current fish stock problem.

I would like to propose my idea to reverse the problem of global warming by levitating a refrigerating cover over the stratosphere of the entire planet to cool us from the skies. However, it must be made of noise, or light or gas, so that our planes and space rockets can still get through.

I would also like to:

Cure cancer with anti-carcinogenic smelling salts
Make food from sand using camels' digestive systems as a processor, thereby eliminating third world hunger

Unfortunately I have absolutely no idea how to achieve any of these.

I think you might be digging a hole with that argument, but who knows.

With adequate controls and policing on fishing quotas there should be nothing to worry about.

Just because the "Wall of Sound" idea is completely without scientific basis and technological capability doesn't mean it's not a great way to sort out the current fish stock problem

Thank you. Water is a great transmitter of waves such as sound or vibration. There are sounds and vibrations fish do not like, not least an approaching net, beating on the water, or predators. Surely it would be relatively easy to test which sounds repel a fish? Can't anyone see that if you could replicate those sounds or vibrations in a line underwater, those species, with an aversion to those sounds would keep away?

Ok, fish-ranch, it might be plausible - might might might...but only under very strict rules e.g. the world would have to let itself get to a stage whereby it needs these ranches because the sea is empty and completely non-productive and bereft of wild stock...IF the sea was let to get to this state, I'd hate to think what our lands would be like, I can only conjure up an image of a chaotic world starving for food and fighting over what there is...Under this rule, a nice big fish ranch just wouldn't be a viable option because the water would be so polluted and empty of any nutrient, unable to sustain life, there'd be ranch piracy and probably no organised way or energy for harvesting the stock...

In my opinion, there's not a fish-stock problem and there'll be plenty for all if it gets managed properly...

Do you know how many people in the world are already starving?

yes...about 13%...under the need for the fish-ranch hypothesis we're talking about 80+% of the world...

I wasn't debating whether you could make sonar or not, it's the 1000 mile long wall of sonar buoys I was wondering about.

Also, will it not cause a bit of annoyance to sea creatures trying to migrate nearby? The theories about whales beaching themselves due to naval sonar should be warning enough of that.

PS. Apologies for the sarcasm in my previous post. I was mad you took the picture of Megan Fox off.

Admin lost the avatars when they switched over.

It's a good point about the whales, but again scientists can develope things that only affect certain 'species'. What's that buzzing device that they have on street corners to deter delinquent teenagers?

I can see what you mean about the species-specific sonar, but that buzzing thing doesn't really work specifically. They have a had to remove some because anyone with good hearing can't sleep at night. Unfortunately neds still share enough of the same genes with humans for it to work on both.

Maybe someone will invent the sea-ranch in the future (I doubt it, but who am I to say never). I think we're getting off point though. If fishing was undertaken in a sustainable way, as determined by marine biologists setting feasible quotas and policed by the government I can't see any reason why we shouldn't do it. I think fishermen are being over-criticised here, not to mention all tarred with the same brush.

Yes, I accept, all tarred with the same brush. But don't Britain's fishermen have a common interest in dealing with the biggest problem, that of the un-policed 'international', non-territorial waters that make up the majority of the ocean surface?

Yes they do, but stopping British fishermen from fishing won't help that one. Unless, once we take away their jobs and means of living the government arm them and employ them as illegal fisherman bounty hunters. Hmmm. Could work.....

It's a good point about the whales, but again scientists can develope things that only affect certain 'species'. What's that buzzing device that they have on street corners to deter delinquent teenagers?[/quote]
Funny thing Science

Fish farms using electronics

WHAT NEXT--------------------------------SEE SNORKEL RICE

NOTHINGS IMPOSSIBLE

So if we call these sound/vibration devices 'sonar buoys' and if you could drop them in a large pattern across the ocean, moving and controlling them so that you drive the fish into a concentrated area, over relatively shallow, smooth sea bed, where you can hold them within the wall of sound and scoop them up with nets, do you think fishermen might be more interested in investigating this idea? If they can make that leap perhaps they can realise the same technology might be used to create fish ranches.

Havers!