Scallop dredging

[DiscoClint]

I agree that more fish should be sold locally. Anyone complaining about the lack of locally sold seafood actually walked up to a fisherman and asked to buy some fish? Anyone asked at the local shop to see if it would be a plausible idea to sell from there?

By getting "rid of these parasites" do you mean ban all fishing; an industry that has supported the people of Seil for many years? Quotas are there to prevent over-fishing. If they are too high, then fair enough, reduce them to a point where it's sustainable. Prevent non-local boats fishing the waters. Stop buying fish from supermarkets.

I am not a fisherman, but I think the idea of stopping fishing is incredibly unrealistic and shows a lack of understanding of the workings of the local economy. Besides, they can't stop fishing altogether, I have only just started eating seafood.

[Sandy MacSeil]

I'm not interested in how Seil was supported historically. That was a different world; now's a clean slate so to speak. I'm interested in saving some fish in the oceans. I'm saying that "quotas" should be set on a local sale-and-sustainability basis only. Guys living locally, overfishing and making a mint on the back of destroying our coastal ecosystem for the sake of international sales and profits, we can do without nowadays.

[canUsmellthat]

Sadmac, you seem to be quite an authority on the local fishing industry and what the "local guys" (an argument in itself) are doing to our ecosystems...presumably you are a marine biologist too...I think you're just another uninformed pleb ranting from the side-line about a game you know nothing about...or you're just a sad wind-up merchant...

[DiscoClint]

I have said before, I'm still a bit in the dark as to where all these millionaire fishermen are. There are a couple locally who have made quite a bit of cash, enough to have more than one (or a fleet) of boats, but I don't think that's the norm.

As far as quotas on a "local sale-and-sustainability basis" goes, how local is local? What would people who live inland do? Or people in cities? "Local fish for local people" sounds like the "League of Gentlemen" to me. We could start searching cars at the bridge to make sure people aren't stealing "our precious" to take back to their water-less dens.

In this glorious future without fish, apart from the people who have worked their entire lives in the fishing industry losing their jobs, how about young people (in particular males) leaving school and looking for work on Seil island? Between the boats, processing and transport of seafood, it provides an income for young people wishing to live in the area. Without the fishing industry you would see the average age of Seil people increase even more than it already has, speeding its passage to the idealized retirement home it could one day become; devoid of interest and life. Or they could stay on the island, but go on the dole; an even worse prospect.

......and in case Smelly is right and you're a wind up merchant....i'm not wound up (deep breaths)

[NickB]

.
This thread is allegedly about scallop dredging, which is a minority activity in terms of local fishing. Most of the local boats are creel fishing for prawns. AFAIK this is a pretty sustainable fishery.

As for the constant comments about not being able to buy seafood locally - well you can if you know the right people, but Firth of Lorne langoustines are not likely to be on sale in Balvicar Shop in the near future; they go to Spain because the Spanish are prepared to spend decent money on decent food, while the average shopper in Scotland seems to be happy to eat tasteless supermarket prawns because they are cheaper. The British consumer's demand for very cheap food has done nothing to help sustainable fishing or agriculture - although it has boosted the production of flabby farmed salmon.

Sandy, I presume you don't eat fish then? Or only farmed fish? Or mackerel you catch yourself?

[Pentlandpirate]

There used to be a time when you could walk from one side of Scotland's main harbours to the other side without getting your feet wet, because there were so many boats. That might have been back in the 19th century, but clearly huge numbers of fishermen have had to change their way of life and find another way to earn a living. It's not because the demand for fish has fallen, it's simply that there aren't the quantities of fish there used to be. Fishermen can't assume they can go on fishing as long as they want to.

They are hunters and plunderers of the sea, generally taking what they can without a care. The future has to lie in 'farming' the sea, managing it intelligently so that you can continue to take from it. That means enforcing fishing boundaries, creating non-fishing areas, sowing those areas with man-made fish foods to help them re-produce and grow, and then only 'culling' a percentage of the mature fish to ensure that it is sustainable. It is being done in netted fish farms , but fishermen need to recognise that if they wish to have a future they have to find ways of doing it in open waters, perhaps penning fish in with sonar or other electronic methods, into 'sea farms' covering of hundreds of square miles.

It would need science, government backing, huge investment, and decades of work to create these sea farms, much as it has taken with wind farms at sea. Unfortunately individual fishermen will say it won't happen in my lifetime, do nothing to work for the future, and in the meantime time anything they can. As conventional fishermen they will teeter on extinction of their own type and the fish they catch, until a new breed of fisherman spends as much time studying how to manage the seas as a farmer spends studying land, crop and livestock management. You'll find a farmer spends very little time learning how to drive a tractor and shoot a gun, so perhaps a fisherman should spend less of his time learning to steer his boat and catch a fish and more to learning about his environment and 'breeding' the stock he wishes to fish.

I think the analagy with 'land' farming is a very valid one.

[Sandy MacSeil]

Well said, Mr P Pirate. As for Admin McB, of course I eat fish and shellfish - love them. I'm just saying I want to eat local sustainably caught seafood. You seem to think that the fact that the Spaniards will pay more justifies overfishing our own stocks and sending it all to Spain. Sorry, I don't agree. The environment and ecology here come first. In any case, Oban, as the self-promoted seafood capital of Scotland, has an increasing number of restaurants charging big money for good local produce. With a bit of initiative, our local fishermen could easily tap into that market. But I object to the local stuff being caught in thoughtlessly large quantities for international export. And, CanU, try not to be so personally insulting or I'll set Herby Dice on you! DiscoClint, by "local" I really mean regional. Of course Scottish fish can go to the inland cities. There is scarcely a species of fish that isn't facing extinction in the coming century - let's make fishermen become more responsible and let's keep these fish species and the oceans viable for the sake of our grandchildren.

[khartoumteddy]

And yet Guys
although there is no shortage of wind
no one wants a wind farm

TEDDY

[Eric the Viking]

sowing those areas with man-made fish foods

Where's this fish food coming from PP? What does it contain? Who feeds the fish in this worldwide eco fish ranch and how do you make sure the little fishies are equally fed?

Or are you just spouting nonsense for the sake of an argument?

[khartoumteddy]

Where's this fish food coming from PP? What does it contain? Who feeds the fish in this worldwide eco fish ranch and how do you make sure the little fishies are equally fed?

Or are you just spouting nonsense for the sake of an argument?[/quote]
logically we fed them on fish and seperate each on a battery farming system
TEDDY

[canUsmellthat]

"..an increasing number of restaurants charging big money for good local produce..."

You mean, of course, locally caught shellfish, presumably you know that hardly any fish gets landed into Oban ports these days...

"But I object to the local stuff being caught in thoughtlessly large quantities for international export."

What are the "..thoughtlessly large quantities..." and what would be acceptable numbers for you???

Do you know anything about the South West fishing industry??? If you did, you might know that west coast boats can’t catch their prawn quota set by the government…And Brussels…

[Pentlandpirate]

Where's this fish food coming from PP? What does it contain? Who feeds the fish in this worldwide eco fish ranch and how do you make sure the little fishies are equally fed?

Or are you just spouting nonsense for the sake of an argument?

Well, thanks Eric. You must be a fisherman. Because fishermen only seem interested in catching fish and not in learning from their mistakes of the past or how they can make good in the future. I don't have the answers but establishing an 'eco fish ranch', developing nutrients and foods, and containment devices is probably far less of a challenge than mankind set themselves in trying to go to the moon. Man can find these solutions, but it takes attitude, effort and resources to do it. I'm ready to bet it won't be fishermen who manage to do it.

As for spouting nonsense, I don't think so. Just imagine you were living in 1909 and someone started spouting off about space missions to the moon and the planets beyond, supersonic passenger planes, surgeons transplanting hearts, limbs and even faces, creating identical living oganisms by cloning, a global network of thinking machines sharing infinite knowledge, you might think, oh yeah???? You already have kids who think milk is made in a machine. How long before people think fish only comes from a farm?

[Eric the Viking]

Don't we already have fish farms, which is essentially what your talking about?

Which I'm sure we're all agreed are wonderful things and do no damage whatsoever to the environment, migratory salmonids, sand eels and surrounding marine life at all.

[Pentlandpirate]

Yes, we already have got 'net' enclosed fish farms. And for some of the reasons you give they are not the real solution, but a step in the right direction. They are learning as they go, but have some way before they learn how to farm the open seas using technology to pen fish into far larger fish 'cultivation' areas perhaps covering hundreds of square miles with each 'fish ranch' as you appropriately describe it.

[Eric the Viking]

You're are serious aren't you?

Perhaps you should be talking with the big boys at the FAO instead of wasting your time here on this little forum?

[Pentlandpirate]

Yes, I am serious, but it's up to those who choose to fish the seas commercially to decide a plan of action and make it work.

The trouble with issues like this is that the solution is often generations away, and people are tempted to say, why should I bother to make the effort, I'll never see the benefits. Fortunately the world is waking up to dealing with some of the longterm problems our population has created. But over-fishing the non-territorial seas of the world is not one of them.

[khartoumteddy]

P.P has a very good point
The Spanish have primarily cleaned out the Mediterannean Sea
of course they will pay higher prices but is that
a good reason for overfishing other areas as well.
No soy Anti Espanol /or any one else for that matter but

Cod and many of the major species are becoming rarer
but no species at all can withstand overfishing and destruction of its habitat
British farming has improved and now perhaps is taking its self seriously
and becoming more ecologically friendly
it has a long way to go but we`re all learning
Hopefully fish farming can do the same

Back to Scallops;We have the power to kick off against overfishing or unsustainable cropping

Equally we have the power not to eat scallops if we suspect the methods of the suppliers
TEDDY

[canUsmellthat]

Clams are a non-quota species; boats can fill their boots every hour of every day - they are an r-strategic reproductive organism and bounce back provided they are given a chance to do so...

Cod has made an amazing come-back in our waters and only remains on a recovery programme so the Government can control the fishing fleet so as to manage the capture of other species in the sea...

As for fish-ranches "..covering hundreds of square miles..." - this is a ludicrous concept and just not needed...

[Sandy MacSeil]

So there you are, folks - CanU and his kind are the problem.....

[canUsmellthat]

Just stating the facts and the blatantly obvious...