SHOCK POLL. 67% want independence...... from Scotland

[Tony the Toad]

Yes, quite amusing. But Mr Salmond wants us to have a serious debate and the Loch Ness monster is pure fantasy.

The Loch Ness monster 'pure fantasy'? How very dare you, sir.

[Pentlandpirate]

You mean it's Alex Salmond who lives in Fantasy Land then?

[Herby Dice]

So. An independent Scotland is going to be an economic basket case, expelled from the EU, NATO and the UN and probably Eurovision too, with no nuclear weapons to defend ourselves from a rampaging English invader. It is going to be such a horrendous place to live that large chunks of the country are going to declare UDI and tow themselves out into the North Sea. We are all to become foreigners, cut off from our loved ones in the south by, one presumes, a massive tweed curtain (TM Herby Dice 2013) from Carlisle to Berwick and unable any more to travel or perhaps even communicate, probably because of our strange foreign ways.

At the same time is going to be such a paradise that hordes of (other) furriners are going to swamp our society bringing civil war and ethnic cleansing on a scale not seen since the Balkans.

I was somewhat ambivalent about the whole business, but I am starting to be persuaded. It all sounds perfectly horrible.

[Pentlandpirate]

No, I really don't think that will happen. I'm fairly confident sense will prevail.

Yes, a 'No' vote is the sensible and likely outcome, but at what cost? The referendum will have been an expensive process, stressing and dividing the population, creating uncertainty for investment and jobs, wasting several years that could have been better spent by Scottish MP's in the Scottish parliament doing their job to make Scotland a better place with the resources and powers they have already had for many, many years. Why aren't they doing that instead of creating a diversion from their poor management of affairs yet. What are their successes to date?

And for what did they start this process, the great unanswered question, "for what"? It's a complete waste of time, money and opportunities.

[NickB]

.
Satire is obviously an alien concept to you, P

And for what did they start this process, the great unanswered question, "for what"? It's a complete waste of time, money and opportunities.

Polls have repeatedly shown that well over 60% of Scots want either independence or a lot more devolution. Only a minority are happy with the status quo. The threat of independence has now got the other parties falling over each other to assure us that there will be more powers for the Scottish parliament in the event of a 'NO' vote. So from that point of view it would seem to be the only way for the majority of Scots to have a chance of getting the powers to determine their own future that they want.

(Although I have to say I don't believe a word of it - vote 'NO' and get nothing is more likely).

Unless you have something new to say I suggest you give up now and leave the Scots to get on with it. This has got to be the longest pointless whinge in the history of this forum.

[Pentlandpirate]

Unless you have something new to say I suggest you give up now and leave the Scots to get on with it. This has got to be the longest pointless whinge in the history of this forum

Get lost! This is my country. I'm just excluded from having a vote on the future of part of it. And what a cheek to suggest I might have nothing new to say on the subject. The whole time I have been giving my opinion (allowed YES/NO? or is this not a forum?) and so far I have seen little in terms of substance about the desired shape and format of an independent Scotland either from the contributors here or the SNP led Yes Campaign.

The United Kingdom has suffered the longest whinge by some Scots blaming all their ills on English governace for too long. It's not for nothing that the Scots race has a reputation for having a chip on its shoulder, always being tight and mean, always blaming someone else. It's a reputation earned for Scotland, no doubt it should be blamed on a minority, who selfishly succeed in holding Scotland's prospects back. Scotland can succeed if it changes its attitude. But there's no need to change its boundaries.

That's my input. If you don't like it tough, but if you don't like my interference, then please accept I don't like a portion of the population trying to break up my home either.

[Foxglove]

Excellent post PP...sums up exactly how I feel, I could never have put it as eloquently as that though!

[Tony the Toad]

PP writes: 'It's not for nothing that the Scots race has a reputation for having a chip on its shoulder, always being tight and mean, always blaming someone else.'

This is blatant racism. No other word for it.

[Pentlandpirate]

Is that racism? What rubbish!

I'm just stating what the reputation is. Are you denying it? (Can I as part Scot be guilty of racism to my own race?)

[Tony the Toad]

Is that racism? What rubbish!

I'm just stating what the reputation is. Are you denying it? (Can I as part Scot be guilty of racism to my own race?)

You wrote 'It's not for nothing' that the 'Scots race' have such a reputation, which goes some way beyond just stating what the reputation is, but suggests that the alleged reputation is valid. And it was you who brought up race, so don't dare try to turn it back on me with your spurious counter-questions.

Your statement is blatantly racist.

[Foxglove]

No, Tony the Toad...it is not racism at all...just a fact. I am someone who has lived in different parts of the country and this is definitely how the Scots are seen. So what? if people [like me] don't like it they can move elsewhere...

[Pentlandpirate]

I said the reputation is .......I didn't say it is fact that the Scots have a chip on their shoulder, always being tight and mean, always blaming someone else.

But if you wanted it, the fact that some start jumping up and down, blaming me for racism, only proves the point. As I said before, it's the attitude that is most of the problem.

Any how, even if I do say it as a part Scot, I am only being self-deprecating, not racist.

[NickB]

. . . blaming me for racism

You weren't being 'blamed' for racism, you were being accused of it.

Promoting two-dimensional racial stereotypes is not usually helpful in any discussion. Coming from someone from outside the country who is making it his business to tell the Scots that they have no right to decide their own future it frankly beggars belief.

[Pentlandpirate]

Promoting two-dimensional racial stereotypes is not usually helpful in any discussion. Coming from someone from outside the country who is making it his business to tell the Scots that they have no right to decide their own future it frankly beggars belief

WHAT? You just don't get it. Even after all this time. You are in the same country as me. It's called the United Kingdom. You're the ones telling me I can't decide the future of my country.

And what exactly is your Scottish lineage?

[NickB]

And what exactly is your Scottish lineage?

What's my Scottish lineage got to do with it Pirate? This referendum is about the people who live here deciding the constitutional future of the country they call home. Plenty of 'non-ethnic' Scots in all spheres up here these days, including politics. An accident of birth is insignificant; it is where you choose to live, work and raise your children and grandchildren that is important.

If you want a say in Scotland's future then come and live here, otherwise stop whinging. Seems to me it is you who has the chip on their shoulder.

[Foxglove]

Rubbish! I've heard many a Scot whinge about English born people who 'dare' to wear a kilt up here. I would have thought that someone born in Scotland, Scots parents, working in another part of the UK should have more right to vote than an English born person living up here! Would be interesting to see what the REAL Scots think of this?

[NickB]

Rubbish! I've heard many a Scot whinge about English born people who 'dare' to wear a kilt up here. I would have thought that someone born in Scotland, Scots parents, working in another part of the UK should have more right to vote than an English born person living up here! Would be interesting to see what the REAL Scots think of this?

What a bizarre attitude. Do you consider that you have a right to vote in the referendum?

[Foxglove]

No..not really.

[NickB]

No..not really.

Well, you have every right - and anyone who has made you feel differently should be ashamed of themselves.

You even have the right to vote NO

[Foxglove]

Oh I WILL vote...and I'll vote 'no'. Still think that as an English born person I have less right to vote than Scots living in England.