Seil Chat

Sandy MacSeil wrote:the majority of Scots are proud of MacAskill's decision

Absolute tosh !
Try tuning in to Jeremy Vine as we write! Those with Scots accents phoning in are almost all expressing embarrassment.
The Poll on this site shows that the vast majority are against the decision.

Shankers34 (putting by choice)

I guess that we would expect you to be a Jeremy Vine fan! And a supporter of English cricket! If you had listened to the Radio Scotland phone-in this morning, you would have heard differently.

And since when was 10 out of 19 a "vast majority"?

As usual, your pro-English anti-Scottish ex-schoolteacher eggsentricity and arrogance are showing.

Ach Sandy, you're so sweet in your rage sometimes.

Sandy MacSeil wrote:And since when was 10 out of 19 a "vast majority"?

I make it 10 out of 12; I've discounted your three votes and the four who did not express an opinion on the release of Magwatsit.

Sandy MacSeil wrote:a supporter of English cricket!

I'm puzzled as to why you think this! I merely pointed out that England won the Ashes yesterday and, thus, pushed MacAskill off the front pages.

Sandy MacSeil wrote:your pro-English anti-Scottish

Again, which of the sentiments I've expressed in this thread are pro-English? NONE ! Which are anti-Scottish/ NONE! Get a grip dear.

Sandy MacSeil wrote:ex-schoolteacher eggsentricity

At last you compliment me. I would be proud to be an eccentric teacher; a profession which I admire far more than politicians.
Calm down Sandy.

Shanks22 (Kurt by choice)

Once Again

The SNP has demonstrated an uncanny ability to
SHOOT ITS SELF IN THE FOOT

although maybe shooting megrahi would have been a better option :jack

TEDDY

On the contrary, Teddy, the boy done good today and was a credit to Scots law, to the country in general and to the SNP. I don't suppose you agree, given that you want to shoot a dying and possibly innocent man. Why don't you and Longshanks get together somewhere in the long grass?

Your Right Sandy

I DO NOT AGREE AT ALL
Rightly or wrongly the guy was convicted by the courts
The release will do nothing at all for international relations
thats positive
AND AS REGUARDS TERRORISTS (or MOST NATIONALISTS)
in this day and age only a PRATT
would give them credibility after a murder of that or any scale.
LIFE SHOULD MEAN LIFE
SOD THE FAINTHEARTS
and sadly many more die of cancer perhaps we should concentrate on curing that
TEDDY
incidentally it isnt all that often I find myself in agreement with Longshanks
but that is the joy of democracy.
Neither am I a Homophobe but I wont bat for that side either

OK Teddy, let's just agree to differ. It is certainly true that opinion is split. My view is that this was a non-political legal decision which, based on our law and precedent, any Scots Justice Secretary of any party would have had little option but to reach. But generally speaking I agree with you that a life sentence should mean for full life (but with compassion at the terminal stage).

And, Longshanks, take a look at the blogs in today's Scotsman to check out Scottish opinion!
http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/Mac ... 5583557.jp

What degree of compassion did these guys have for those involved in the original offence
NONE

TEDDY

Sandy MacSeil wrote:look at the blogs in today's Scotsman

Thanks Sandy. Against my better judgement I did. Makes this forum look positively calm and sensible. There are numerous posts by vitriolic hard line Nats publicising their sense of victimhood, posts by right wing christian fundamentalists expousing their holier than thou attitude to the rest of us, and calm posts by ordinary Scots expressing their embarassment.
Try reading this link. To avoid you going on another rant about what you fantasise I believe, can I point out that the article was written by a Scots journalist and are HIS VIEWS, NOT MINE.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... Scots.html
Lets make thigs clear, Sandy. I believe MacAskill's decision was disastrous for us because.
1. I believe it was wrong because he took no account of the vast majority of the families who lost their loved ones in this atrocity . Scots Law gave him no obligation to release the bomber. He was merely obliged to make a decision Yes or No on the application. Nothing in Scots Law forced him to release the man.
2. MacAskill has made the mistake of defending himself by talking as though he's giving a sermon in the Kirk.
3. It is patently obvious this is all about cementing good relations with Gaddaffiduck so we can get preferential trade and oil deals in Libya. Anyone who cannot see that is either totally niaive or has no understanding of how our world works.
4. It has brought down the wrath of the most powrrful nation on earth upon our heads. A nation with which we share a common heritage. I'd rather be friends with America than with all the arab nation.
You have a nice day now Sandy.

Calm Shanks62 (realist by choice)
ps Teddy; how did he know about our activities in the long grass? You been worm charming with him too?.

can I point out that the article was written by a Scots journalist and are HIS VIEWS, NOT MINE

Well Longshanks, I know you are a fan of mine but I am surprised to hear that you are also a fan of my colleague at the Torygraph, Mr. Warner. Gerald is not exactly known for his pro-devolution views with his constant references to the 'pretendy parliament', 'wee Scots senate' etc.

I don't think you should worry about the wrath of Obama-God. Gerald thinks he has far more pressing problems and is going to be a one-term wonder.

Chris Booker

sorry longshanks i deny it although i know your brother

Sheepshanks a knotty little devil

TEDDY

I'd rather be friends with America than with all the arab nation.

Is that because they shoot civilain planes out of the sky and the pilots get medals?

I'd rather we made our own decisions right or wrong than be someone's lap dog!

This from the final few sentences from an op ed piece on the recent Lockerbie affair from the Christian Science Monitor (makes a change from the usual suspects). In an attempt not to cherry-pick too much, I’ve included the last-but-one paragraph, too, but it’s the final sentence that I find interesting:

‘In 2007, a Scottish judicial review found grounds for Megrahi's appeal, which the former prisoner dropped in advance of his release. Was the release a compromise that spared Scotland possible embarrassment that might come out in an appeal?

MacAskill vehemently maintains that the release decision was his alone and made solely on the grounds of compassion. It's hard to hear him, however, when the gale-force winds of suspicion and politics are howling.’

I suppose we might find out, at some point in the future (if we live as long as Harry Patch did) what’s exactly been going on re. the whole Lockerbie affair. But I think that Kenny MacAskill, notwithstanding being hung out to dry by a number of people* and organisations, made his decision based on the reasons that he said he did.

* e.g. Pontius Pilate Brown’s cynically considered ‘quasi-judicial matter’ comment, probably written for him by Mandy [Jay to Brown’s Silent Bob].

Ach. Meant to put in link to above quote. http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0824/p08s01-comv.html

Christopher MacBooker wrote:Gerald is not exactly known for his pro-devolution views with his constant references to the 'pretendy parliament', 'wee Scots senate'

Actually, my wee friend, it was Billy Connolly who coined those phrases !

Christopher MacBooker wrote:I don't think you should worry about the wrath of Obama-God

I don't. I worry about the reaction of the vast mass of American ultrapatriots; I've already seen us Scots (bet you're glad you're English) pilloried in a cartoon as "haggis eating surrender monkeys".
I love my country and would die for it. It so saddens me to see those who used to admire Scotland and Scots turning against us all because some idiot at Hollyrood has given in to pressure from Westminster for the sake of oil and trade and then had the gall to expect us to believe his Calvanist sermons of justification. Knox he ain't.
Eric; no more hols in California or Florida for you...you'll get a much warmer welcome in Saudi or Tripoli now.
From Newsnight last night:
In April a panel of, named Drs, gave MacAskill their prognosis that the bomber would live till around April 2010. Two weeks ago MacAskill sought the prognosis of one, unamed, Dr who gave the bomber three months to live; how convenient.
When asked why the bomber couldn't have received compassion by being cared for in a Scottish hospice MacAskill said that it would need 48 police to guard him and was thus not feasible !!! What. not even for three months ??
Commit a terrorist act in Scotland, get ill and get freed because we can't guard you in hospital.
Cry the beloved country.

Eric; no more hols in California or Florida

Oh Dear - What a pity - Nevermind.

I'd like to ask you a question Longshanks -if Megrahi lived another three months in a Scottish prison would the relatives and families who lost loved ones really be any more avenged?

if Megrahi lived another three months in a Scottish prison would the relatives and families who lost loved ones really be any more avenged?

Aye, he would have served 11.25 days per life lost instead of the miserly 11.1 days the press seemed so concerned about. What a pointless statistic that was.

Despite everything, including the calls for Scotland to be boycotted, there are still calm and reasonable voices coming in on the breeze from the US, too. Sure, we see clips and read of some ultrapatriots (thanks Shanks, that’s a good term), but people everywhere tend to rage through language more than they act through rage (thankfully). If the vitriol unleashed on some of the comment sites in the UK newspapers, on this and on previous matters, was unleashed on the streets, the UK would have melted down some years ago. It’s already becoming, rapidly, yesterday’s news for a great number of US media outlets> For example, today’s Fox News Live’s front page doesn’t even mention the release, nor even Brown’s ‘statement’. It’s covered ‘inside’, to be sure, the featured item on the World section but not very sensationally: the US attention has here shifted to Gaddafi. And this is Fox. Overstating the case, dramatising the voices shouting for a boycott, is not really reflecting the broader view; the media over here are, generally, just doing what the media does best, i.e. trying to fan flames into conflagrations. Yes, the families of the victims are bound to be upset by the decision, and have every right to be, having an acutely personal emotional involvement in the release. We can hardly say to them ‘calm down’. But right enough, boycotts and racist venom aimed at Scotland, from voices artificially amplified by the media, both at home and abroad, are still not going to bring anyone back. Neither are pointless statistics or patriotic chest-beating.

What a pointless statistic that was

Not for one moment was I trying to bring statistics into this debate although I thank you Mr Blubby for devoting your time and considerable mathematical expertise to the problem.

What I was trying to say (remind me never to try subtely again) was irresepective of where or when Megrahi dies it will make little difference to the bereaved.

I'm not a great fan of Kenny MacAskill but his decision took guts, it would have been so easy to bow to pressure from Westminister or the US. I believe his decision was one of compassion and genuine humanity.

As for Libyan oil Shankers? - That's good one - we haven't even got control over our own oil.