Seil Chat

There is a stretch of water here where it is possible at spring low tides to wade and catch scallops using a child's pond-dipping net. My best haul was a couple of dozen in an hour.
On a related subject has anyone noticed how prolific mussels are this year? They are colonising rocks previously clear of mussels all along the Sound.
And crabs of all varieties. Walk the tideline and notice the thousands of crabshells.

Ray Shanks (wildfood by choice)

ps the local pheasants recently started hatching. Not to everyone's taste but the chicks (de-fluffed and fried in garlic infused breadcrumbs in virgin Tuscan olive oil) make delicious eating, bones and all. Very easy to catch, scare off the hen pheasant and scoop them up by the handfull.
No doubt Erica will whinge about this post but I'm sure Discoclint (sp) will approve as a pagan, with pagan morals; I've locked up my virgin daughter by the way, Clint (sp)

It's all to do with global warming, the crabs are dying (hence the shells) but the mussels love it and are flourishing...

canUsmellthat wrote:It's all to do with global warming

I can see where you're coming from Smelly, but maybe you're still not aware of the growing consensus amongst eminent scientists that global warming was just a geeky scare story. They are pointing out that solar radiation is now reducing again and that global average temperatures are back to the level of seven years ago*. A lot of damage (environmentally and economically) is still being wrought by the warmists but most respectable thinkers are now consigning the theory to the same dustbin as we put Y2K, CjD, bird flu etc and leaving the warmists to watch their complete series DVDs of Star Trek and The Simpsons.
Sea weed is increasing also. (Great in salads).
My theory is that our waters have reached a "tipping point" in nutrient levels causing rapid vegetative and crustacean growth. This is probably caused by the ever increasing amounts of poo being flushed into the sound by an increase in the number of yachts (caused by the Depression; they can no longer afford to sail warmer waters in the south so are coming here).

Hot Shanks (warm by choice)

* See Christopher Booker in the last three weeks' Sunday Telegraph.

Very sorry Longshanks, but I am afraid I have been completely discredited by that dreadful oik George Monbiot.

He is of course right. Please forgive me.

Chris Booker

Blimey !
The World famous Christopher MacBooker posting on our li'l ol' forum !
Is that really Macyou Mr MacBooker?
Or has MacSomeone added to MacHis growing list of multiple MacPersonalities for future voting purposes?
....................................
However it is very interesting how the warmists are becoming increasingly and desperately defensive now that an ever increasing number of scientists are knocking huge holes in the warmists theories and prophecies.
The Gruniard article in the link is an absolute classic of the despairing attempts to silence what the warmists rather sinisterly call the denyers. Monbiot's (anag.) first damning piece against brave Christopher Booker is that Booker incorrectly refered to someone as a superviser. Blimey ! In that case everything Booker says must be lies and he must be receiving massive backhanders from the evil oil industry !
The saddo warmists really need to get off their high horses, admit that they've made the biggest mistake in scientific history and the shuddup before the environmental and economic damage they are causing becomes truly devastating and threatens the future of our civilisation.

Right Shanks (Mac-hunter by choice)

No, it's really me.

Glad you like my columns, but I would be the first to admit that I have been a little naughty in the way I have interpreted some of the evidence. Devils advocate and all that. I am preparing myself mentally here on your little forum for 'coming out' in the near future before retiring to my carefully prepared place in the Sun. I would have gone sooner, but fortunately the predicted 'Barbecue Summer' has been put on hold. Of course I shouldn't have confused my adoring public over the climate / weather issue, but hey ho, I got away with it for long enough, and how else is a poor journo to make a living?

I do sometimes worry that history might think poorly of me, but then I remember that history is unlikely to be made by Telegraph readers and I feel comforted.

What is scallop dredging?

Chris Booker

I wish Longshanks was as honest/sensible as Mr Booker (whoever he is - sorry I'm not a Torygraph reader. But welcome to the forum anyway). Devil's advocate (and maybe nutter) are the only words for Shankers and for anyone else who doesn't accept the huge scientific database on climate change induced by mankind (and, OK, superimposed on natural variability). Please, though, let's not start the regurgitating of all that nonsense you've spouted before, Longshanks - it's very boring and makes you sound idiotic. Bad for the sensible image of Seil. But possibly to be expected on a Torygraph island.

Of course, you're quite right Mona old girl.

MonaLott wrote:let's not start the regurgitating of all that nonsense you've spouted before, Longshanks - it's ....... bad for the sensible image of Seil

Tell ya what;

I'll stop telling the truth about the global warming scam IF:

Someone on this forum can point to just one event or phenonemum which has occured, or is occuring, on Seil the cause of which can only be ascribed to manmade-global warming and to nothing else.

If someone can do this then I PROMISE I'll never post about natural climate change nor will I take the piss out of the warmist loonies again.

Don't all rush now.

Shankers (yellow carded nutter by choice)

ps seagulls being noisy at 2230 doesn't count.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/colu ... -fall.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/colu ... unacy.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/colu ... t-lie.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/colu ... mists.html

It has made enemies out of friends...

One phenomenon here on Seil is that carbon dioxide concentrations in local air have risen from below 280 to above 360 ppm in the past 150 years, ie exactly the increase attributable to global burning of fossil fuels, cement manufacture etc. This carbon dioxide is infra-red active and absorbs the island's reflected energy. Hence temperatures are rising and weather is more stormy and populations of everything from sand eels to birdlife are shifting. Probably wasting my time here, Shankers, but wouldn't it be nice if, as a flat-earther, you would just repent and be quiet!

Blimey Mona (you're not Lot's wife by any chance?) I think you've got me at first attempt! Congratulations on a thoroughly researched response backed, one can only presume, by hard data

MonaLott wrote:One phenomenon here on Seil is that carbon dioxide concentrations in local air have risen from below 280 to above 360 ppm in the past 150 years.... this carbon dioxide .....absorbs the island's reflected energy......temperatures are rising and weather is more stormy and populations of everything from sand eels to birdlife are shifting.

Looks like I'll have to eat my hat and be nice to the warmists now.
To show my new found commitment I'll change my manifesto for the upcoming (when!) C.C. elections to reflect my newfound green agenda. A little help please:
Where has CO2 been measured on Seil and by whom?
Could you let me have a copy of the temperature record for Seil over the last 150 years please?
Likewise a record of storm frequency.
Do you have any data on our sandeel population over the same period, likeways bird population? Are they shifting away or are they arriving here? While you're at it similar data please for "populations of everything"
Meanwhile I'll be busy growing a beard and spreading the word by blaming every little out of the ordinary thing on global warming. We'll soon have Seil covered in windmills with any luck.
Feels really good to be right at last ! Thanks Mona.

Green Shanks (global warming fanatic now, by choice)

Any way to return to the thread...... as we know scalloping is damaging to the local environment, but the banning of it really comes down to what you replace the industry with. What you replace the industry with depends on which environmental camp you fall into. Ie global warming or not in my back yard.

There are some studys that show that dredging in shallow water with movement from wave action anyway (6-18m) has little effect so it also comes down to which set of stats you wish to believe, personally I would avoid propaganda from types who go on hunger strikes to save seals from alleged shooting.

Fishing in this area despite what mona says provides most who work in it with a working wage, there are a few exceptions obviously but there will be in any industry. Diving for the most part cannot provide enough scallops for even the local market and is also far more dangerous than dredging.

Any way the main point is banning a specific form of fishing will lead to more pressure on other stocks such as prawns as boats change gear to fish for them. Replacing this with tourism as I feel is the suggestion gives low paid seasonal jobs and the unspoken carbon footprint (if you believe in global warming).What with all your tourists jetting/driving in from all parts to go on overpowered planing "eco" boats. Thus negating any work you have done to save the local environment by melting ice caps somewhere you can't see. Not that I am suggesting banning tourism as a healthy balanced economy needs both.

Here's what local fishermen involved in the industry said when the ban was introduced:

http://www.sff.co.uk/display_article.php?articleid=49

Anyone want to buy a scallop farm?

http://www.findafishingboat.com/listings.php?cid=28

I see the thoughts of the fishing industry were made some time ago. Perhaps this offers some more recent food for thought.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... h_of_Lorne

I realise the dredgers have had to go further afield, but it seems they are still in business. Is it worth asking for this to continue in order to try to assist recovery of our sea bed and the benefits that could bring, or should we allow the damage (as admitted) to re-start in order to support the dredgers?

Well, I have done some research and I now know what scallop dredging is.

Sorry to 'dredge' this up again, but I wondered if your local fishing community had seen this, and if so what they made of it.

[youtube]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UjGjEogAze8[/youtube]

For more about the film see HERE

Chris Booker

I think this has been stated more than once in a previous thread but it is creel fishing that predominates locally which is a selective 'cropping' method of fishing and is considered by the Marine Conservation Society as a sustainable method. Counts of the West Coast nephrops fishery also place it as healthy.

Please don't tar all fishermaen with the same brush.

If you have a problem with it don't buy locally caught seafood, oops, sorry, none of you will buy locally caught seafood that's why it goes to the continent while you buy your "Caught in Scotland, Tailed in Thailand" miniture frozen scampi from Tescos.

I agree Eric.

Below is some information that a local resident provided me with after a chat about the topic:


"In the SNH brochure the Firth Of Lorn SAC states "the exceptionally rich diversity of the marine life in the Firth of Lorn is of international conservation importance."
In terms of the Marine Nature Conservation Review surveys around Britain which resulted in the designation of SACs the Firth of Lorn had the highest species diversity of all sites surveyed except for St. Kilda.
The claim that scallop dredgers don't work over rocky reefs is unsuppported and the submission to the European Comission which resulted in the closure of the Firth of Lorn contained video of a number of rocky reefs which had been damaged by dredgers. In one case a dredger had been filmed working along the shore and the camera was kept running from the same peice of shore, descending to damaged rocky reef. The submission also contained photographs of a number of different scallop dredgers each with their gear caught fast in rocky reefs in the Firth of Lorn.
Boulder and cobble slopes greater than 64mm are defined as rocky reef because of the fauna that they support and soime dredgers are equipped with conveyer belts in order to clear boulders from the deck. The design of spring loaded toothbars on Newhaven dredgers is ideal for working in and around rocky reefs.
What is important here is that having areas closed to scallop dredging is good for conserving the very important marine life that we have but is also important for the dredging industry. A 2 square kilometre area was closed to scallop dredgers in the Isle of Man 25 years ago. Initially, two of the dredgers illegally fished this area but now that this has stopped the area has 60 times the biomass of scallops that it did before it was protected. Scallops breed by simultaneously releasing their gametes into the water. In heavily fished areas the scallops are so widely seperated that fertilisation is virtually impossible. The closed area in the Isle of Man has been so succesful in reseeding adjacent areas that a further box has now been closed with the support of the industry. A second reason why closed areas are good for the industry as well as for conservation is that dredging destroys the upright epifauna of the seabed which is essential for scallop spat to settle on. It also destroys nursery areas and biogenic reefs.
Many parts of the world have designated "no take" zones. New Zealand is the in the forefront where there are now 29. The lessons to be learned are that you get a huge increase in all marine species including those of commercial importance within a very short number of years. This is of benefit to everyone. What is needed is for the Firth of Lorn to be designated for creel fishing and scallop diving only with a percentage between a third and a quarter of the SAC area to be a "no take" zone."

You're wrong again Erica, and you are belittling all us locals:

Eric the Viking wrote:none of you will buy locally caught seafood that's why it goes to the continent while you buy your "Caught in Scotland, Tailed in Thailand" miniture frozen scampi from Tescos

Anyone who lives here, however long, knows exactly where to buy local caught langoustine and scallops and, those of us who prefer to eat local, fresh produce do so regularly.
The ONLY reason our seaharvest heads off to Spain etc is because those who fish our waters (not necessarily local people) are driven by greed ie they accept the guaranteed high prices paid by the Euro merchants rather than attempt to create a truelly local (by that I mean British) market for their catch.
And, as an aside, those who do buy their frozen scampi from Tesco are merely exercising their freedom of choice and, as a by product, providing income in a poorer country for those who work in the southeast asian processing factories. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Creel fishing is only sustainable if the fishermen actively restock. They don't, they just take. Unlike all other types of farming fishermen make no input into their crop. No wonder our seas are dieing.

Long Line (Hooker by choice)

"fishermen make no input into their crop" - this comment is too simplistic to be taken seriously by anyone..."No wonder our seas are dieing" - who says they are???

Minimum, nothing you've said is new news - I don't think anyone disputes the damage dredgers do ('cept maybe the likes of dredge in Oban)...interestingly, some Skye creel fishermen in a closed loch report poorer prawn catches because there is an increased number of predatory fish kicking about, they attribute this to there being no trawlers/ dredgers working there...