Cads and bounders

[spiderman]

As you admit to being an upper class twit, PP, it's maybe not surprising that you're not into working class poetry (even if slightly misquoted by Teddy). Even Boris would probably have worked it out!:

First Rabbie Burns:

"O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us
An foolish notion:
What airs in dress an gait wad lea'es us,
An ev'n devotion!" (Rabbie Burns)


Secondly, William Henry Davies:

"What is this life if, full of care,
We have no time to stand and stare?—
No time to stand beneath the boughs,
And stare as long as sheep and cows:

No time to see, when woods we pass,
Where squirrels hide their nuts in grass:

No time to see, in broad daylight,
Streams full of stars, like skies at night:

No time to turn at Beauty's glance,
And watch her feet, how they can dance:

No time to wait till her mouth can
Enrich that smile her eyes began?

A poor life this if, full of care,
We have no time to stand and stare."

I think you owe Teddy an apology, PP, just like Boris in Liverpool.

[Pentlandpirate]

Must admit, I was never into poetry

Always thought it was for the pooftas

[Eric the Viking]

Du må ikke sitte trygt i ditt hjem
og si: Det er sørgelig, stakkars dem!
Du må ikke tåle så inderlig vel
den urett som ikke rammer dig selv!

[spiderman]

But, PP, we always thought that you upper class twits are all pooftas anyway.....

...as for Erik, wrong language, wrong country...didn't we get rid of you lot at Largs in 1263? If not, I don't think you're big on the world poetry scene (or on anything much else for that matter)......

[Eric the Viking]

Ah Nick! ah Nick! it is na fair,
First showing us the tempting ware,
Bright wines, and bonie lasses rare,
To put us daft
Syne weave, unseen, thy spider snare
O hell's damned waft.

.....and well spotted CP another Arnulf Øverland fan I see?

[khartoumteddy]

sorry sailor we`re back into generalisations again

all poets are poofs

didnt this poet hear that somewhere about sailors

I didnt beleive it about them all.

Some priests are nice people

but all politcians are trustworthy.and pigs can fly

Teddy

[Seventhseil]

"I don't think you're big on the world poetry scene (or on anything much else for that matter)...... " surely sum mishtake spidey.....

[spiderman]

7th, got to keep them cocky immigrant Vikings in their place, no?!

Back to the thread, so the landslide of votes for cads and bounders down south has made oor Wendy want an independence vote. Just like I said, the steady progress to independence is inevitable now.......

[Pentlandpirate]

Spiderman..............is it forgive and forget? Already?

Hasn't Wendy Alexander been just as dishonest as those 'cads and bounders' you imply are only down south??? Politicians are politicians. Most of them become politicians to gain power. Power means control, and control means they can shape the world to their own good. You will always find some are tempted to take just a little more than they are allowed.

I'm afraid a Conservative government in power in Westminster will make independence for Scotland less likely. Together we are one nation and all the better for it. De-centralised government is good and the success and failure of many policies and decisions in the Welsh, Scottish (and soon) Northern Ireland assemblies help to establish a better way forward. But independence for scotland is only a desire of the minority and would be a mistake.

And forget Largs. When 10 times as many Scots as Viking attackers, ends in a stalemate, it doth not make a victory. Please come up with some more convincing arguments in future. You're slipping

[spiderman]

Yes, PP, as I've already said, Labour politicians are just as bad as you say. But the whole point of this blog, which you seem to be missing, is that Scotland is the traditional heartland of Labour, and with the current and continuing decline of Broon's Labour and the rise of the ex-Eton cads and bounders down south (anathema to traditional Scottish Labour voters), there will be an inexorable drift towards the SNP and, if they continue to perform reasonably well, towards independence.

As for Vikings and Largs, relax, old son - it was only a bit of fun!!

[Pentlandpirate]

and of all those Scots, many of them well educated, including at places like Eton, who then chose not to live in Scotland.........what are they?

Why can Scotland not be governed by Conservatives if they come up with the best policies? Who is to say that in time Scotland will not have some Polish MP's?

Why not bring in some foreign politicians to sort out what is best for Scotland. If football teams can bring in foreign managers with success why not let them have the job? You might even think of English MP's as foreign. But not many English think of Blair, Brown, Cameron, Darling, etc, et al, as foreign.

[Seventhseil]

Um...pentland you seem to be missing the point, Scotland pretty much as a whole voted against the tories last time round......even though they retained power for around 20 years. Now we have a Labour goverment which is as bad as the tories. We in Scotland have a Labour heartland who cannot vote labour this time as they have found out eventualy that labour are incompitent spammers. Therefore a conservative goverment would be very unpopular north of the border and with no real opposition here other than the SNP I feel I must agree with spidey.
As for cads and bounders.....to many about.
The nationality of MP's/MSP's isnt an issue either, its the SNP not the BNP.

[Pentlandpirate]

Hi Seventh,

Yes, I know Conservatives are EVEN more unpopular, but what is the solution? SNP stands for Independence, but a significant proportion of the population are utterly opposed to separation. Unless the SNP drops its bid for independence it can never have a majority. I feel Conservatism probably better suits new Scotland than Old Labour which is what Scotland has seemed to want to stick with (Scotland never liked New Labour).

The SNP won't get Independence....so what do you go with? You could do worse than go with the BNP!

[spiderman]

PP, just give it time........the percentage of folks living in Scotland who are in favour of self-government is increasing all the time..........

[Pentlandpirate]

What the majority want is self-government within a United Kingdom. That is not the same as independence

[khartoumteddy]

back to one of the original themes

Our Wendy

All politicians are trustworthy

Well pigs can fly anyway

Teddy

[spiderman]

PP, you are way too confident that you know public opinion! But out-of-touch overconfidence is said to be a characteristic of "upper class twits", a group to which you admit to belonging.

My guess is that you will learn quite soon that you're wrong. The day is drawing nigh when most folk, of whatever nationality, living in Scotland will prefer self-government for the country of Scotland, just the same rights afforded to most other quite identifiable countries with distinctive histories and cultures such as ours.

And the nice thing is that the more that old-Etonians, cads and bounders such as you proliferate, protest and rant - and the longer the SNP government runs things competently and professionally (compared to its predecessors and to the Westminster parliament and London assembly) - the more quickly the swingometer tilts towards Scottish independence! And, incidentally, it's not a separatist thing - an independent Scotland will be best friends of England, Wales, Ireland etc, even of Scandinavia, Eric and CP! - but it's just a matter of running our own affairs within an international framework.

So, as Wendy says, "Bring it on"!

[Herby Dice]

Wendy is demanding that an independence referendum is brought forward for one reason and one reason nly - nothing, sadly, to do with any desire for the people of Scotland to have their say. The thinking is simply this:

After recent results down south, it looks as if Labour could lose the next general election to the Conservatives. A Tory win in England combined with a typically abysmal Tory showing in Scotland may very well make us more likely to vote "Yes" when the referendum eventually comes, so she needs a referendum before that happens. Labour also know that independence for Scotland means no more Labour governments in England. They need a "No" vote as soon as possible so they can put the matter to bed for another 20 years.

This volte face is pure self-interest, but no surprise there - she's a politician, after all.

[spiderman]

Agreed, Herby. It's just a dying end-game for Wendy and Labour - but it's a genuine political ambition for the SNP....... FREEEDDOOOOOOMMMMMM!

[Pentlandpirate]

Support for Scottish independence slumps
By Simon Johnson, Scottish Political Correspondent
Last Updated: 2:20AM BST 30/04/2008
Support for Scottish independence is at an all-time low, with fewer than one in five voters north of the Border wanting to break up Britain.
A poll conducted for The Daily Telegraph by YouGov – the most in-depth analysis yet of attitudes to constitutional change – shows that only 19 per cent of Scots would support independence in a three-option referendum. Nearly three quarters backed keeping a devolved Parliament, either with its present powers or with more responsibilities.

In another blow for Mr Salmond as he marks his first year of power, the poll shows that more Scots blame the First Minister than Westminster for the rows that have broken out between the two since last May.

But the SNP's support in a snap Holyrood and general election has soared over the past year, albeit by nowhere near the amount required to meet Mr Salmond's target of taking 20 Westminster seats.

Article continuesadvertisement
The First Minister's personal approval ratings are also streets ahead of his counterparts in the Unionist parties, with more than half of Scots thinking he is doing a good job, compared with barely one in five for Wendy Alexander, the Scottish Labour leader.

There is also no sign of a Conservative revival, with a majority saying the so-called "Cameron effect" would have no effect or even make them less likely to back the party.

Last night political experts said that the poll findings were a huge setback for Mr Salmond's strategy of increasing support for independence by governing well at Holyrood.

Instead, they suggested that the results indicated that Scots were happier than ever with having their own parliament but still being part of the United Kingdom. Despite Alistair Darling's troubles at the Treasury, the poll shows that voters trust Westminster far more with their money than Holyrood and do not want more tax powers for Scotland.

The Nationalists have trumpeted two recent polls that placed support for independence at about 40 per cent – much higher than a year ago.

But these surveys gave voters a choice of the status-quo and separation, gearing the question towards the latter. The YouGov poll shows 59 per cent of Scots would vote in a referendum to retain the Scottish Parliament in a similar form, with only 25 per cent in favour of a completely separate state outside the UK – the same level as when the SNP took power.

When a third option of giving Holyrood more powers is added, support for independence dropped to 19 per cent, a decline of four percentage points since last May.

The figure is smaller than the previous lowest level of support for breaking up Britain, 23 per cent, recorded in a survey by the Scottish Centre for Social Research last year.

In contrast, 38 per cent of people backed giving Holyrood more powers – the same as a year ago – and 34 per cent supported the status-quo, up nine percentage points.

Asked about their experience of devolution, 58 per cent of Scots agreed that Scottish ministers have operated effectively within the powers they have and "the best of both worlds" is achieved by remaining part of the UK. Only 29 per cent said the past nine years showed Scotland was capable of governing itself and didn't need to stay in the UK.

The result is also a blow to one of the main tenets of SNP strategy – calling for changes in reserved areas and lamenting not having the power to legislate in these areas.

The poll also suggests that voters are tiring of another tactic in their campaign for independence – publicly denouncing Westminster.

Since last May, rows have raged between London and Edinburgh, starting with Mr Salmond insinuating that a deal had been signed to free the Lockerbie bomber and, recently, claiming Scotland was cheated out of £120million of prison spending.

Asked who is to blame, 38 per cent said it was Mr Salmond's fault and agreed that he is out to cause trouble so he can persuade voters Scotland should be independent. Slightly fewer, 35 per cent, blamed London, agreeing that Labour does not care about Scotland or give the Executive enough money.

The same proportion agreed with the First Minister's claim that the Government is "bullying" Scotland, while 38 per cent opposed that statement. However, the results of both questions were skewed towards Mr Salmond by the overwhelming proportion of SNP supporters who blamed the Government.

The responses also suggested that Scots do not trust Holyrood with their money and prefer the current arrangement of a block grant from Westminster using the Barnett formula.

This gives Scots £1,500 more per head than their English counterparts, and 61 per cent of respondents said the Executive should learn to cut its cloth accordingly.

More than half of people interviewed (54 per cent) supported the current arrangements, while only 20 per cent said Scottish ministers should levy their own taxes to raise most of their income.

However, there was better news for Mr Salmond on voting intentions at Holyrood and Westminster elections. The poll gives the Nationalists 36 per cent in the constituency vote, five points ahead of Labour on 31 per cent, with the Liberal Democrats trailing on 15 per cent, the Tories on 13 per cent and other parties four per cent.

On the regional list vote, the SNP won 37 per cent support, Labour 28 per cent, the Lib Dems and Tories 13 per cent each and other parties nine per cent.

Professor John Curtice, of Strathclyde University, said this would see the SNP winning 51 seats, an increase of four, Labour dropping one to 45, the Tories and Lib Dems both getting 16 and the Greens a single MSP.

In a Westminster election, Labour would win 34 per cent of the vote, down six points on its 2005 level, while the Nationalists would almost double their support, from 18 per cent to 30 per cent. This is enough for the SNP to win four seats, says Prof Anthony King of Essex University — short of the 20 Mr Salmond claimed would make Westminster “dance to a Scottish jig”.

Tory support would increase slightly to 17 per cent, while the Lib Dems would fall to 14 per cent, with other parties getting six per cent.

But asked about David Cameron, only five per cent said his leadership of the Tory party made it more likely they would vote Conservative at a Holyrood election and 13 per cent at a Westminster one.

More people — 12 and 14 per cent respectively — said Mr Cameron made it less likely they would vote Tory, while 60 and 53 per cent respectively said he made no difference and they would not vote Conservative anyway.

Mr Salmond’s performance as First Minister won plaudits from more than twice the proportion of respondents (53 per cent) than Mr Brown’s as Prime Minister (26 per cent).

A third of voters disliked the SNP leader’s tenure, compared to two thirds (63 per cent) with Mr Brown’s.

In another fillip for Mr Salmond, 43 per cent of voters said he made the best First Minister, compared to only 11 per cent for Miss Alexander, his supposed main rival for the post.

Only 21 per cent of voters thought she is doing a good job, compared to a massive 60 per cent who do not.

Almost twice as many, 41 per cent, said Annabel Goldie was doing well as Scottish Tory leader, with Nicol Stephen winning 27 per cent support for his performance as Scottish Lib Dem leader.

Spider....you must have stayed dangling in the cave after Robert the Bruce came out. The reality is different out here.