Seil - an alternative way forward

[brodie]

with surplus income going to the community

What exactly does this mean? In the case of Easdale Island does this mean the SECC?

Eilean Eisdeal purport to represent the island community but this is not credible as hardly anybody on the island is a member of this notorious organisation and their membership are mostly off-island people apart from some of their directors and their families.

[NickB]

with surplus income going to the community

What exactly does this mean? In the case of Easdale Island does this mean the SECC?

Eilean Eisdeal purport to represent the island community but this is not credible as hardly anybody on the island is a member of this notorious organisation and their membership are mostly off-island people apart from some of their directors and their families.

Well, it is a bit moot as it almost certainly isn't going to happen. However, if the community did want to get into a relationship with a company such as Nova Innovations then they would have to set up some sort of community-owned and community-funded enterprise company I would imagine. The Community Council certainly has no authority to enter into any such relationship, while Eilean Easdale appears to have no mandate to negotiate on behalf of Easdale, let alone Seil and Luing.

Community Energy Scotland is an organisation devoted to helping communities develop renewable energy projects - they would be good people to ask for information on business models etc. It would also be worth getting in touch with the people responsible for the community wind turbines on Gigha and Tiree to see how they did it.

Fintray in Stirlingshire is a small community with a big involvement in renewables. Their website is also worth a look. When looking at Fintray itt is worth remembering that Rory Young offered the alternative of a turbine for community ownership rather than payment of a flat community benefit. This would have given the community a stake in the project rather than merely being 'bribed' with a flat rate community benefit. I have not heard anyone discussing this option, which is essentially what has happened in Fintray.

With the current ROC allowance for tidal and the magnificent tidal resource of Cuan on our doorstep a community tidal turbine could be a fantastic thing for the community - but if Nova don't have a working device it is a non-starter. I don't know of any other small-scale tidal turbines close to deployment status.

[brodie]

If you adopt a considered approach and apply a risk assessment, then as you state, the fact that Nova does not have a fully proved and working system implies an extremely high degree of risk and makes it a non-starter. This indeed is the sensible conclusion of the SECC. It is a pity that this technology is unproven and has no track record as it could turn out to be a good source of renewable energy from the Cuan Sound.

However, if you adopt a carefree, cowboy approach and adopt a gung-ho attitude to the responsibility of spending community money, whether it comes from donations, subscriptions or tax payer grants then you reach the conclusion drawn by Eilean Eisdale that it is indeed a risk worth taking.

[NickB]

If you adopt a considered approach and apply a risk assessment, then as you state, the fact that Nova does not have a fully proved and working system implies an extremely high degree of risk and makes it a non-starter. This indeed is the sensible conclusion of the SECC. It is a pity that this technology is unproven and has no track record as it could turn out to be a good source of renewable energy from the Cuan Sound.

However, if you adopt a carefree, cowboy approach and adopt a gung-ho attitude to the responsibility of spending community money, whether it comes from donations, subscriptions or tax payer grants then you reach the conclusion drawn by Eilean Eisdale that it is indeed a risk worth taking.

To be fair Brodie the Easdale meeting has not happened yet and we do not know what will be said or concluded by either party. Neither do we know if SECC have in fact had an opportunity to listen to the case as put by Nova.

Regarding the matter having already been discussed by the Community Council - it would be good if they could publish the agenda of forthcoming meetings so those interested in a particular issue could be forewarned. Perhaps I am uninformed and this already happens, but if so then where? I also think it is a pity that they no longer publish the minutes of meetings online.

[brodie]

It is indeed a pity that the minutes of the SECC meeting have not been made available. It is my understanding that the meeting was attended by two directors of Eilean Eisdale and from what they said on this topic it would appear that they have already made up their mind in advance of the Nova presentation.

A considered and advised approach, I don't think so.

[Minimum]

Didn't OSCR advise Eilean Eisdeal that any future consultation had to be run independently? It seems they have taken no heed of the advice.

[Husker Doo]

Eilean Eisdeal mentioned at the same time as any worthwhile scheme makes my heart sink if only there was a way Seil could gain access to something like this

[jimcee]

Please - a translation of that last post ?

[NickB]

.
I'm not going to be able to attend the Nova Innovations presentation on Easdale on Saturday due to a prior commitment.

Perhaps one of our regulars is going and would be prepared to do a write-up on here afterwards?

[brodie]

I also have a prior commitment which will prevent me from attending.

I also agree with Husker Doo that given EE's previous track record for screwing things up, it is indeed bad news for Seil, Luing and Easdale that EE are involved and I would encourage people to attend if possible to keep them in check.

It is a pity that the Nova technology is so embrionic with no track record or field trials as it could prove in the future to be a viable green project for the Cuan Sound but at the present time it is too risky to commit community funds.

[Husker Doo]

Please - a translation of that last post ?

Mmm i forgot the size of fish im swimming with here.

I don`t know what you mean?

[jimcee]

The inference seemed to be that Seil should have an unrepresentative quango to go chasing after every handout and grant regardless of whether it was in the interests of the general population or not.
This does not seem to me to be a good idea, as we have enough divisions to contend with at the moment without importing more from across the water.
Purely as an aside ( and an attempt to defuse any acrimony from the above statement), and as a later subscriber to these columns - What is a Troll?

[Husker Doo]

No i don`t agree as you say with an unelected body going after free money but mmmm its difficult i think Seil and Luing are perfect for such a scheme but without a buy out how would it happen and who does the buying and from whom?
EI is a peculiar place with a few unpopular individuals behind schemes and i wonder sometimes if its not the personalities that are objectionable rather than the ideas

[Foxglove]

How astute Husker Doo

[brodie]

What is a Troll?

One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

EI is a peculiar place with a few unpopular individuals behind schemes and i wonder sometimes if its not the personalities that are objectionable rather than the ideas

I believe it may be the irresponsibilities of the individuals concerned whose principle concerns would appear to be anti-social and anti-community.

[jimcee]

Thanks for the definition of a Troll - while in a general agreement with the premise that deliberately prococatice remarks, purely to disrupt and annoy, are counter productive, surely a bit of "devil's advocate" can help to enliven a discussion - a lot of the postings on this site fizzle out because no -one takes an alternative view. After all the title is "Forum" and not "Notice Board".

Finally, a quest for further information - How do you get quotations from previous posts included in your replies - I notice a box with Quote on it at the top of this posting space, but how does it work?

[Seventhseil]

On the subject of tidal turbines in Cuan, the problem is it is too shallow and turbulent for a Stanford lough style turbine, although the have been some small scale vertical bladed turbines developed for rivers, Cuan would be more suited to the tidal barrage type. perhaps built in to a fixed link. A tidal power system would not be invisible to the human eye, and if it produces big power would need some meaty pylons and sub stations. If the turbines are unpopular can you imagine the furore if a set of HT pylons were to be constructed.

[NickB]

.
An MCT style machine is not suitable for Cuan, but a wholly submerged design - particularly of the shrouded turbine type rather than the 'underwater windmill' design - would be.

Something llike this from Open Hydro, curently testing at EMEC:

[Tony the Toad]

Thanks for the definition of a Troll - while in a general agreement with the premise that deliberately prococatice remarks, purely to disrupt and annoy, are counter productive, surely a bit of "devil's advocate" can help to enliven a discussion - a lot of the postings on this site fizzle out because no -one takes an alternative view. After all the title is "Forum" and not "Notice Board".

Finally, a quest for further information - How do you get quotations from previous posts included in your replies - I notice a box with Quote on it at the top of this posting space, but how does it work?

You log in, go to the post that you want to quote, hit the 'Quote' button on the bottom right of that post and that will take the quote to your new post. Then just add what you want underneath the transferred quote on your post.

[jimcee]

]

Well Tony/Toad
If the above line of quotes appears on this post you will see that the instructions you gave about including a quote (despite being followed to the letter) have not worked for me.
What I had intended to include as a quote was a post by nick b which included capital letter references, which may mean something to some of the intelligensia reading the post, but were completely lost on me, and I presume most of the readers.
If the post is to have some meaning to the general public then the use of initial letters for some system or organisation that we ordinary mortals have never heard of, is counter productive.
As a final rejoinder - because the quote system did not work for me I was unable to quote the reference letters mentioned above, as there seems to be no facility for accessing the forum while composing a reply.