Sounds of nature

[jimcee]

Well what a can of worms that has opened up.
I, among others, was aware that all the woodworkwers were lying low,. and it is nice to see them showing their faces (and views) again, even if some of them try to divert the issue into their own private agenda.
I must throw in my lot with Mona Lot, and find it abhorrent that manking gets real pleasure from the killing of specially reared species, which have as much right to take their chances in the natural world, as the rest of nature. Big game hunting was once considered to be a mark of virility, and fortunately - due to decimation, that has largely disappeared. If this killing instinct is so insatiable, perhaps abbatoirs could hire out their facilities, and make a killing.

[Seil Blubber]

. . . specially reared species, which have as much right to take their chances in the natural world, as the rest of nature

Not sure where you are coming from with this argument Teddy. Pheasants stand NO chance in the natural world, have you seen the way they handle traffic?

[spiderman]

There are some pretty old pheasants around our place, approaching cautiously, eating the bird seed, avoiding the local predators and dodging the traffic. Good luck to them. Darwin's theory can only mean that, in a few thousand years, Scottish pheasants will be superbirds! But shooting pheasants for fun seems to me like a dismal person's kind of sport.

Nice to see us all back here. Where are you, PP?!

[Eric the Viking]

The rainbow trout must be the pheasant of the fishy world then?

[canUsmellthat]

Anyone who has a problem with rearing animals for a specific purpose must therefore be heavily into animal rights and either vegan or vegetarian...

[Pentlandpirate]

Happy Christmas friends!

[khartoumteddy]

it wasnt me that bought up mugabenomics and to me one lousy politician is the same as the next.

whos for legalising politico shooting then??


pheasant shooting no. not for fun but seriously it does make a difference to the income of many a tennanted estate
or do you think all farmers still live in the lap of luxury????

20 years ago perhaps. dont mind the odd bit of salmond baiting though.

Teddy

[Husker Doo]

Hi.Where have you been Eric so much sense in so few words.There is so much you can say about Seil and it`s ecology but were so lucky that we have Seil Island Natural Heritage Group here to save us all its the usual assortment of RETIRED MIDDLE AGED MEN PONTIFICATING having discovered the new religion.Lucky to receive a nice pension from what ever job and done the white flight thing they arrive like John the Baptist and proceed to preach the gospel of `hate any kind of industry that gives real jobs to people in the countryside`, fishermen are bad and please don't ask me what job i did when i paid taxes. I'm away oot :English Flag :English Flag :jack

[Pentlandpirate]

If one suggests pheasant shooting, fox hunting and deer stalking are only 'sports' for the toffs, will you accept that it is generally the poorer echelons of society who are responsible for dog fighting, cock fighting, badger baiting, hare coursing?

Killing animals has NOTHING to do with class, but is a natural instinct of all heterosexual men.

[MonaLott]

PP, there is a tiny grain of truth only in your statement - Killing animals has something to do with class, being a natural instinct of sad minorities, one comprising the so-called toffs, the other the so-called working class. The majority of people of all classes, however, want nothing to do with killing animals. Their sex or sexual inclination is irrelevant.

[Pentlandpirate]

I disagree Mona.

Deriving enjoyment from killing animals does have to do with s e x. In general women and gays, being gentler types don't get their hands bloody, but some women with deep voices and slightly too many male hormones do.

I repeat, Class has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.

[longshanks]

I agree Pentland.
To take this further we do need to crack this confusion about class.

sad minorities, one comprising the so-called toffs, the other the so-called working class. The majority of people of all classes, however, want nothing to do with killing animals.

"Toffs", and that threatened species, the "working class" are not terms which reflect the reality of our class system. What we still have, and have had for centuries is a system divided as follows:
Upper Class
Middle Class
Lower Class
I would venture that a fourth class has emerged, since the massive expansion of the benefit system, at the bottom of the pile which we could call the Under Class.
All classes aspire to progress to the one above thus all have an interest in maintaining the system, hence its longevity.
As for the killing of wildlife for pleasure. I would suggest that members may come from any class, and do, to indulge in this. It is certainly not the preserve of the Upper Class.

Pong Shanks (peasant by choice)

[NickB]

What we still have, and have had for centuries is a system divided as follows:
Upper Class
Middle Class
Lower Class

[khartoumteddy]

sorry Shanks but I have to disagree slightly
yes to your Upper ,middle,and Lower classes
even at a pinch your under class
but surely theres a fifth band:

any one who murders anything for pleasure has no class at all.

Nadir class maybe,nada class,or just worse than trash.

Teddy

[Seil Blubber]

You can't murder pheasants - you can only murder another human bean.

What about sport fishing?

[Eric the Viking]

What about sport fishing?

Sportfishing or angling is a bloodsport - you simply can't escape that fact - however, it gives plenty men and women (don't know about the gays) pleasure - whether they catch and kill, catch and release or don't catch at all (not convinced about that one )

While fishing isn't murder there are a few murderers that fish! (watch tomorrows news for the answer to that one)

[khartoumteddy]

I think your just fishing with that one Erik

Teddy

[MonaLott]

Eric, don't you agree that sportfishing is not in the same league as pheasant shooting from the points of view of (lack of) subtlety, difficulty, skill level, mass killing, artificiality etc? The fish are mainly natural and indigenous, they are skilfully lured singly and can anyway be released after being caught. The birds are foreign species, selected because of their size, stupidity and slowness, grown in bulk solely for the purpose of being killed and are massacred in such huge numbers that many are never eaten but are sometimes just buried in specially dug pits.

Sure, it's difficult to draw the line between acceptable and not but, for me at least, pheasant shooting is an unworthy activity on Seil and its environs that we can do without in this day and age. The fishy equivalent would be dropping dynamite into the local fish farm cages!

[DiscoClint]

Not fishing again! I suppose a community surrounded by water should be expected to be fish-obsessed, but I thought more people would have been for the killing of fish, not against. I admit that I don't quite understand the fun in fishing, especially when throwing it back, but then I don't understand why people watch X factor either. Honestly, what must people from the big cities think of us!?

I don't really care about farmed pheasants being shot. They taste better that way compared to when I run them over in the car. Plus sometimes it takes way more than one try to hit the damned things with the car. I am more interested in the class argument going on here. As far as I can tell from the thread, pheasants=good ; underclass=bad. So hypothetically, could we have a shooting range for the underclass instead? It would lower taxes, but they wouldn't be as good eating (I imagine). Still if it's just for sport and they are getting thrown away anyway, who cares? It is January after all: out with the old in with the new and all that.....Now I think about it, it's probably a good job they brought the pheasants in, since in the days of The Clearances, the landowners would probably be quite happy to pop a few crofters.

Despite that, I don't think it's a class thing. The toffs just have proper projectile weapons, while the peasants (not pheasants) have to use other animals, sticks, wire and any other old rubbish (Buckfast bottles) they can find to kill with, since shells and bullets cost too much. Humans of all levels kill other things.....

I do agree with PP in that the fairer s.e.x. don't seem to like killing animals as much. The only reason I can think of to explain this is that they have more than enough fun delivering psychological torture to males to need such fickle distractions (joking of course ladies.....kind of).

Joking aside, historically, men hunted and women didn't, so it has really just been ingrained in the male psyche. It's just that some of us are more closely related to our ancestors than others.

[khartoumteddy]

old in with the new and all that.....Now I think about it, it's probably a good job they brought the pheasants in, since in the days of The Clearances, the landowners would probably be quite happy to pop a few crofters.
Joking aside, historically, men hunted and women didn't, so it has really just been ingrained in the male psyche. It's just that some of us are more closely related to our ancestors than others.[/quote]

Nature red in tooth and claw and all that--
probably not if mona can reform nature though.

Teddy