zzzzzzzzzzz

[longshanks]

Is it just me or has this forum become oh so boring over the last couple of months?
NickMacB seems to have wiped himself in some kind of a huff, coinciding with his banning from the OT forum.
The Crimson Vicar has thrown a wobbly and been stripped of his privelages.
Spiderman, Pentland, Eric et al have gone incredibly quiet. Teddy has tried but I don't think anyone quite got him.
...and we're left with, well, to be honest, pretty poor and boring postings (the only exception being the Ozzie/Balvicar thread).
Cheer up all.
Post something controversial and get things going again.
If you don't I will, even if it upsets Herby (aka TCV, aka NMcB, aka admin, aka swarm etc etc)

Snooze Shanks (biting bums by choice)

[Pentlandpirate]

In fact let's have a good political debate...no backstabbing mind! We'll leave that for the politicians.

Seriously, what should we, the people, do to sort this mess out?

Come on then Longshanks, kick things off. Tease us with your upcoming manifesto!

Hoorah you're back!

[spiderman]

Vote SNP, the only sane option.

[Pentlandpirate]

Welcome back Spiderman! Glad you've reverted to English again.

Now, what has the SNP ever done for you?

[spiderman]

Plenty! Including in general running a decent open honest parliament, offering us sensible intelligent politicians, allowing us a proper sense of national identity, and specifically arranging care of my aged relatives and encouraging my younger relatives to have relatively less expensive university educations. Overall, the SNP provides a positive approach to Scotland's future which flies in the face of the grim depression of unionist politics.

[Pentlandpirate]

Given that so much of Britain's laws are made in the European parliament, and so much of Scotland's law is made in Westminster, recent events have only been good for Britain's devolved governments in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. And who, knows perhaps England may have it's own' devolved' parliament too, one day.

Indeed UKIP may be a real threat to the SNP, pulling votes from those who want more independence for Scotland from Europe, but more independence for a united Britain which is undoubtedly better off for being united in times of worldwide crisis. But don't you agree that too much of politics is about party politics and not enough about uniting with everyone to make things better? Aren't you somewhat disappointed that politicians with a mandate to govern and improve life for all of us can't do better? The SNP is no worse than other parties in making its promises and falling short on delivery. There have been some improvements, minor changes, but isn't it time we broke down the barriers of party politics and paid the top leaders of industry, business, health and education in to create a government of people who know their job rather than a bunch of 'career' politicians who have often got no real knowledge of how to make things happen? We are just buried under quangos, committees and red tape that mean our country is going no where fast.

[spiderman]

If you criticise the SNP on the grounds of broken promises, then, given that many of these so-called broken promises relate to the fact that this is a minority government and hence needs inter-party consensus and compromise in order to reach decisions, how much worse would it be to try and gain overall consensus if each member of parliament was in essence an independent free operator? Furthermore, given the mess they have got us into, would bringing in so-called captains of business and industry necessarily improve things? However, one aspect that I find depressing about all UK "parliaments" and indeed political parties is how presidential they have become. We are too focused on the leader only, too personality and appearance fixated. We need a return to true democracy and collective sharing of decision-making within the general membership of governments. In my view, the SNP government has been better than most in this regard, probably because of the very fact that they must seek consensus on each different topic. Plus they appear to spread responsibilities amongst a range of fairly competent ministers.

[Pentlandpirate]

how much worse would it be to try and gain overall consensus if each member of parliament was in essence an independent free operator?

It's because you have to get inter party consensus that things stall. If you had more independent MP's they are free to go with what makes sense for the country, not the party

However, one aspect that I find depressing about all UK "parliaments" and indeed political parties is how presidential they have become. We are too focused on the leader only, too personality and appearance fixated.

Too true. We need some true blokes and blokesses who have more common sense and less 'political' sense. It's why having someone like Alan Sugar in government is a good idea...but it will never work because there's only one thing he could say to so many useless and ridiculously wasteful committees and quangoes..."You're fired!"

[NickB]

isn't it time we broke down the barriers of party politics and paid the top leaders of industry, business, health and education in to create a government of people who know their job

Having worked in three of these sectors at one time or another I have to question the wisdom of this . . . the people at the top of these pyramids are just as likely to be exemplars of the Peter Principle with their snouts firmly in the corporate trough.

You will be wanting Alan Sugar to run the country next.

[khartoumteddy]

isn't it time we broke down the barriers of party politics and paid the top leaders of industry, business, health and education in to create a government of people who know their job

Having worked in three of these sectors at one time or another I have to question the wisdom of this . . . the people at the top of these pyramids are just as likely to be exemplars of the Peter Principle with their snouts firmly in the corporate trough.

You will be wanting Alan Sugar to run the country next.

certainly not alan sugar,gordon ramsey or the ilk
foul mouth (with money) does not make him correct

cant remember who said it but The general principle that each person rises to the level of his own inefficiecy
seems to hold good in most fields

the peasants may be revolting but they are genuine :English Flag :English Flag :English Flag .
TEDDY

[khartoumteddy]

Furthermore, given the mess they have got us into, would bringing in so-called captains of business and industry necessarily improve things? However, one aspect that I find depressing about all UK "parliaments" and indeed political parties is how presidential they have become. We are too focused on the leader only, too personality and appearance fixated. We need a return to true democracy and collective sharing of decision-making within the general membership of governments. In my view, the SNP government has been better than most in this regard, probably because of the very fact that they must seek consensus on each different topic. Plus they appear to spread responsibilities amongst a range of fairly competent ministers. [/quote]
"Orwell-----All animals are equal but some are more equal than others"

Teddy

[Eric the Viking]

Here's a question for all you true believers in democracy - should the media now give the BNP a 'platform' now that they have two democratically elected MEPs?

[Pentlandpirate]

Undoubtedly, Yes. Just as we 'tolerate' Sinn Fein and the islamic zealots who preach death to the infidels. It's only by giving them a platform that we don't frustrate them into taking more subversive and dangerous action.

[spiderman]

What bugs me isn't the folk who voted BNP, it's the folk who didn't vote at all - more than 70% of us in Scotland and two thirds of everyone in England. They are the ones that really let democracy down and they are the clowns that allowed the BNP to gain a 2-member share of the vote.

[Pentlandpirate]

I don't think it is right to make it is compulsory to vote (enforced with fines for those who don't). Everyone has a democratic right not to vote. But something has to be done to engage people in politics to get the nation, especially the young, interested in working for a better country, rather than solely for their own personal interests. The whole 'culture' of our country needs a shake-up from the ground up. What will be the real achievements in our lifetime?

[canUsmellthat]

The problem is that the parties all sound and feel the same, they don't have clear policies or a strong outline of what they stand for...it seems that they've all shifted further into the middle where they think they'll win more votes...

So who did you all vote for anyway???

[Pentlandpirate]

So who did you all vote for anyway???

Sounds like an opportunity for admin to set up a poll to see what the demographics of SeilChat users are like. Can we have a poll on this?

[Pentlandpirate]

That was quick of you admin! Go to the vote here

But where are the BNP, The Christian Party, the Pirate Party (yes, there is one in Sweden and Eric may wish to vote) etc, etc? OK they may be fringe parties (a bit like Labour and Conservative). It's the fringe parties and Independents who have come to the fore and in the name of democracy they deserve their platform too.

[NickB]

where are the BNP, The Christian Party, the Pirate Party

Didn't include them because it is unlikely they will appear on an Argyll & Bute ballot paper at the next election - unless Gordy brings in PR in record time, which frankly I doubt.

[khartoumteddy]

no chance of PR
does Gordon really want to know how popular he ISNT

TEDDY