Iceland

[Seventhseil]

Could someone explain the catastrophic destruction of Icelands financial sector? or even how the stockmarket works? or why after the dot.com crash we are seeing the same sh%$£ again.....

[NickB]

.
I think this is a totally different kind of sh%$£ to the dotcom bubble, with unregulated human greed as the common cause.

These are extraordinary times though - the ultimate admission of the failure of laissez-faire free market capitalism has got to be the partial nationalisation of our high street banks, apparently supported by the opposition as well.

Don't worry though - Longshanks will be along in a minute to explain why it is in fact the ultimate triumph and justification of our current financial system.

- NickB

[Eric the Viking]

Is it because Kerry Katona has eaten all your whalemeats?

[Seventhseil]

Yes that Kerry Katona....... Has the youngest Nolan sister not been scoffing at Iceland as well.......

[Seil Blubber]

Looks like your country is for sale

[Seventhseil]

It seems that the Icelanders are more hated than the Germans or the French. It seems a bit unfair considering they have taken the fall for f'%4s from London and Wall St.....

[Seil Blubber]

[NickB]

.
As the banks are effectively over their overdraft limit, I suggest we each write to them to let them know, and charge them £27.00 for the letter.

- NickB

[longshanks]

Today is an utter disaster for Scotland......both Bank of Scotland and Royal Bank of Scotland are being, effectively nationalised by the Westminster Government ie The U.K..
What hope independence now? How can we control our own affairs if our banks are owned by a foreign government as they will be if we withdraw from the U.K.?
What hope for our once proud financial services industry when our banks are no longer run from Edinburgh?
How many Central Belt jobs are going to be lost as a result of inevitable rationalisation and cutbacks within these two banks?
How many Scottish pension and endowment funds are going to lose massive value as a result of the (so far) 80%+ fall in the value of the shares of these two banks?
How many Scottish pensioners are going to face hard times because they loyally invested in these banks for the dividend income which now has little prospect of being paid in the medium term?
Sure, feel sorry for (or laugh at as some of you do) the citizens of Iceland but we could be going the same way. Will Salmond have the guts to ask Russia for a bail out of Scotland like Iceland have?

Long Face (invested in gold by choice)

[NickB]

.

What hope independence now?

Eh? I thought you were 100% pro-Union Longshanks. I am not particularly pro-Union myself, but I fear that this global meltdown may indeed have scuppered the wily Buchan loon.

Will Salmond have the guts to ask Russia for a bail out of Scotland like Iceland have?

Don't think he is in a position to do so - although he did go to Qatar recently to ask them to invest in new infrastructure projects.

- NickB

[longshanks]

"I thought you were 100% pro-Union"
exclaims NickMcB (Scot by choice).

A closer reading of my previous posts may have elucidated the fact that I'm 100% pro what happened in 1707 as it saved us from feudal oppression, poverty, and constant internicine warfare leading us to the sunny uplands of prosperity and intellectual liberty.

However I feel that now the Union has run its course and that we should break away from the rest of the United Kingdom to run our own affairs.

Succeed or not we could perhaps, in the process, eradicate the Scottish cringe and abolish, once and for all, the anti English racism of a minority of saddoes as we would have only ourselves to account for our situation, not some mythological history of oppression.

Long Trews (Scot by birth)

[spiderman]

Let's look at this positively - now that the banks are effectively nationalised, why not follow up by nationalising the rest of our essential infrastructure, like transport and energy supply? Then our country (Scotland or UK, whichever you prefer) can go forward on a really firm basis.

Meanwhile, big shanker, what's all this rubbish about the Scottish cringe? - I've been all over the world all my life and have only seen Scottish confidence and achievement. You really should try to get out more.

[longshanks]

For your edification Spidey old chap:

http://scottish-independence.blogspot.c ... ringe.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_cringe

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3494686.stm

"I've been all over the world all my life and have only seen Scottish confidence and achievement."

All over the world?

All my life?

Perleeeeeeeze !!!

Scots who have, for whatever reason, left Scotland to live in other countries do, quite rightly, express pride in their distant homeland. Its a trait true of expatriats of any nationality.

The Scottish Cringe (which Salmond admits to) exists in our fellow countrymen still living here.

Long Distance (runner by choice)

[spiderman]

Wotever, Long Wind (by habit)

Hardly authoritative references there, old chap, just amusingly simple piffle! Don't believe everything you read in the papers and Wikipedia.

And I said "achievement". Wherever you travel, you find Scottish creativity and Scots leading the way. Frankly your Scottish negativity makes me cringe. Still, we'll probably vote the same way, if from different directions.......FREEEEDDDOOOOOMMMMM......KAPPPOOOOOWWWW!

[dubhsgeir]

Hi yall
I see GM is insulting other small countries aswell as Iceland apparently small countries are not able to look after themselves in this big bad global world,must tell Norway Denmark,Holland,Sweden,swissland etc this. Perhaps an independent Scotland would have its oil fund and a regulated banking system and an economy that wasnt based on domestic and international debt.
Ofcourse Iceland indulged in similar practices as Gordie but you cant bail out banks with only 300000 tax payers

[spiderman]

Yep, Dooby, Pa Broon has a damn cheek - oversees and encourages the follies of our increasingly unstable financial system for over a decade, then has the brass neck to suggest that Scotland, the very originator of prudent banking and the sound principles thereof, has actually benefitted from being under his UK umbrella. And all he's really doing to get us out of his mess now is to borrow the megabillions from the IMF, something any small nation could also do. I suggest that the substance of his argument is wafer-thin. If, as we should have, we had decades of oil-fund behind us and had not had Broon's financial stupidity behind us, we would undoubtedly have maintained our banking system and minimised the impact of recent global trends.

As the crocodile said to the donkey "We'll be much stronger together"...

[longshanks]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[longshanks]

Spidey old chap;
"Wherever you travel, you find Scottish creativity and Scots leading the way"
What an insult to other nations and other peoples. Are you serious? You're implying that we are God's chosen people and that we somehow have taken the lead in other countries. The only reason that you find a Scottish influence in other countries (notably those of the old Commonwealth) is that we Scots were very active and enthusiasatic participants in the British Empire (eg by 1750 over three quarters of the slave plantations in Jamaica were Scottish owned). Perhaps you are an apologist for colonialism!
"Scotland, the very originator of prudent banking"
Hang on a second. The Bank of Scotland and The Royal Bank of Scotland have been so inprudent that last weekend both were about to go bust and have only been saved by the intervention of Westminster and the injection of £37 billion of taxpayers money; realistically English taxpayers money as the taxtake from England accounts for 90% of the the whole U.K. taxtake. English banks (HSBC, Barclays and Standard Chartered) have refused a capital injection from Gordon, they will raise the extra capital he is demanding all banks raise through Rights Issues and Preference Share offers to private and corporate investors.
Many English friends whom I have spoken to over the last few days are furious about, what they see, as a yet another subsidy for Scotland.
" borrowi the megabillions from the IMF, something any small nation could also do."
No they can't; Iceland has had to go cap in hand to Russia, Norway very recently had to borrow from Washington. Brown is not borrowing a penny from the IMF; he is raising the money on the capital markets, the bulk will come from the U.S. and a massive issuance of Gilts (look at the ads in today's broadsheets). It will be repaid over the next generation through higher taxes (mainly from the English again) and cuts in service expenditure.
"oil-fund behind us"
When will the Nats understand that we live in the United Kingdom and, thus share all resources centrally. That stupid sentiment that England stole Scotlands oil is so discredited. By that argument then any income pruduced in England (85% of UK GDP) should not have been shared with the rest of the U.K. (including Scotland).
The foregoing, Spidey old chap, is not in any way intended to be anti-Scotland. It is merely an increasingly common example of a Scot being realistic having learned how to see without rose tinted glasses and having removed the chip from his shoulder.

Long Hand (stiff by chopice)

[spiderman]

Pity your shoulder chip of Scottish negativity stops you following the English language very well, Shankers. I said that Scottish folk have been both creative internationally and have established the principles of sound banking. An example of the validity of both is that Scots founded the Banks of England and France, plus many other banks abroad, Coutts & Co, National City Bank of Chicago, First National Bank of Chicago and many many more around the globe (including the Hong Kong Bank, a forerunner of your lauded HSBC!). That's what "originator" means, Longshanks and that's what "leading the way" means. These early banks were based on Scottish common sense and prudence. Why you start gibbering about the very recent banking world, after the solid Scottish banking base had been overwhelmed by the flash-Harrys from Yorkshire and beyond is beyond comprehension. If you could only try to get out a bit more, Longwind, you would still find a disproportionate number of Scots in key positions doing innovative work in all kinds of jobs throughout the world.

And - more chip-on-the-shoulder stuff from you - noone here said that England stole our oil - the only point is that, if and when we're independent, most of the oil money will be ours by international law and such an oil fund will surely help stabilise the economy of Scotland.

[Seventhseil]

Yes its a bit rich Pa Broon gadding about "solving" the massive finantial problems he got us into......