. . . seems to be that people think there is a problem with Seil.
I don't see it myself. High house prices are not exclusive to Seil, or even the Highlands.
They are a result of a combination of political decisions and commercial pressures. People who have made a lot of money in a less than ideal environment want to spend it in a nice environment.
All completely natural and predictable. For generations people have gone away from small rural communities to make their money, and many of them have then returned. Maybe not enough are returning - but is that because Seil has a problem? I don't think so.
Affordable housing for young people on an average or lower income is a problem everywhere (apart from a few industrial wastelands like the abandoned coal mining settlements of S. Wales and similarly blighted areas). The solutions lies with our leaders and lawmakers who control the planning process.
There has been low cost affordable housing built on Seil in the past - we live in one. The Housing Association however allowed the properties to be sold onto the open market, whereupon they are no longer affordable housing. We were lucky - we probably got the last affordable house on Seil.
So - yes, there are a few problems - but not peculiar to Seil. These are the problems of rural communities everywhere. There's nothing wrong with Seil.
- NickB
What's the problem with Seil
Moderator: Herby Dice
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NickB
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The problem with this thread . . .
NickB
(site admin)
(site admin)
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Willie Danskin
- Posts: 14
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Am i mad for thinking about moving away after 30 year's of living here because i can't find a decent house there's no job's there's nothing for kid's to do and all the fun has gone from the island, maybe the people that are saying there's nothing wrong with seil don't know anything about seil pull out all the number's you want because anybody that really cared about this island would see that something's wrong maybe not just with seil, people say the past is in the past THE PAST IS WHAT MAKE'S THE FUTURE !!!!!
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NickB
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No, not mad . . .
Of course you are not mad, but there's no low-cost housing anywhere anymore except in places most people don't want to live.
It's not something wrong with Seil, it's something wrong full stop . . . and not many people care, because only 2% of us (or maybe even less now) actually live in rural communities, so our vote isn't worth much.
But there are good things. I don't understand why you say there is nothing for kids to do. Kids play football and shinty and fly kites in the field in front of our house . . . better for them than hanging around the streets in Oban or a city somewhere.
And . . . when you say all the fun has gone from the island, is it anything specific to Seil? Everyone stays at home nowadays and peers at the world through TV and computer screens . . . that's not just Seil, that's everywhere.
If you are looking for the sort of community that Seil was 30 years ago you may have to go a long way to find it. I think the only places you will find this sort of community spirit are places where there has been a community buyout like Gigha or Knoydart, and they will only be welcoming young families with suitable skills to offer. Hopefully there will be more buyouts like this now it is possible; sadly though I doubt if Seil will be one of them.
Surely it's not that bad here - and Spring will arrive eventually . . .
- NickB
It's not something wrong with Seil, it's something wrong full stop . . . and not many people care, because only 2% of us (or maybe even less now) actually live in rural communities, so our vote isn't worth much.
But there are good things. I don't understand why you say there is nothing for kids to do. Kids play football and shinty and fly kites in the field in front of our house . . . better for them than hanging around the streets in Oban or a city somewhere.
And . . . when you say all the fun has gone from the island, is it anything specific to Seil? Everyone stays at home nowadays and peers at the world through TV and computer screens . . . that's not just Seil, that's everywhere.
If you are looking for the sort of community that Seil was 30 years ago you may have to go a long way to find it. I think the only places you will find this sort of community spirit are places where there has been a community buyout like Gigha or Knoydart, and they will only be welcoming young families with suitable skills to offer. Hopefully there will be more buyouts like this now it is possible; sadly though I doubt if Seil will be one of them.
Surely it's not that bad here - and Spring will arrive eventually . . .
- NickB
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wasseventhseil
mabey aye and mabey naw
A lot of good points raised in this topic, I have some sympathy with teuchter's point of view as I am in the similar position of investigating a move away from Seil, as it seems as hard as you work here you are always a step behind the advance of house prices and rent increases.
Although I think its pointless to start English bashing as we are just as likely to get incomers from the central belt or other parts of Scotland. And English people like a party too.
As Nick points out there has been an economic change and also a cultural one on a national scale that has seen the demise of the Seil social scene, not so many sons of the soil who want to go wild on a Friday and Saturday night.
Any way as Gordon Brown is dreaming about privatizing Scottish Water and Hydro Electric drop our voltage by 3% to supply the SE of England ,
I am going to try to drive a land rover up the short cut or perhaps miss the corner at Dunearn and land on the beach,or burn the bar stools from the Inshaig in a bonfire............how I miss those days......
Although I think its pointless to start English bashing as we are just as likely to get incomers from the central belt or other parts of Scotland. And English people like a party too.
As Nick points out there has been an economic change and also a cultural one on a national scale that has seen the demise of the Seil social scene, not so many sons of the soil who want to go wild on a Friday and Saturday night.
Any way as Gordon Brown is dreaming about privatizing Scottish Water and Hydro Electric drop our voltage by 3% to supply the SE of England ,
I am going to try to drive a land rover up the short cut or perhaps miss the corner at Dunearn and land on the beach,or burn the bar stools from the Inshaig in a bonfire............how I miss those days......
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Ticonderoga
- Posts: 22
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What's the problem with Seil?
Reading between the lines of recent contributions, some theories put forward seem to be leading to an equation that states - Increasing numbers of incomers equals decline of community.
Of course, the variable in the equation is the nature of the incomers.
However, the reasons put forward as to why people move to the Highlands, especially the rural Highlands, are very interesting.
Already cited are economic climates, political systems and voting patterns! Where in all this is personal responsibility?
If I buy a property, able and choosing to outbid local, especially young local, folk then I knowingly add to the problems of the indigenous population and should take personal and moral responsibility for my action.
If I buy a holiday home in an area where homelessness amongst locals is an issue, then I have to take personal and moral responsibility for exploiting the situation.
Equally, as a local, if I am willing to sell land or property to the highest bidder, I must accept that I am worsening an already bad problem.
Let's get away from the "What else could we do?"attitude.
Of course, the variable in the equation is the nature of the incomers.
However, the reasons put forward as to why people move to the Highlands, especially the rural Highlands, are very interesting.
Already cited are economic climates, political systems and voting patterns! Where in all this is personal responsibility?
If I buy a property, able and choosing to outbid local, especially young local, folk then I knowingly add to the problems of the indigenous population and should take personal and moral responsibility for my action.
If I buy a holiday home in an area where homelessness amongst locals is an issue, then I have to take personal and moral responsibility for exploiting the situation.
Equally, as a local, if I am willing to sell land or property to the highest bidder, I must accept that I am worsening an already bad problem.
Let's get away from the "What else could we do?"attitude.
With transportation as available today, people who would normally be confined to the cities due to work can now live in more rural areas. Seil having the bridge over the Atlantic makes it even more attractive to comuters. It sure beats a 30 minute ferry ride.
With that said. Locals now compete with commuters for local housing. Many upwardly mobile city workers earn substantially more money than the Island people. Reason is cost of living in cities vice rural communities. Example: 1 room flat in New York City is $2,000 per month. I live in rural Pennsylvania. 4 bedroom farm, 12 acres, 3 large barns, free heating gas is $450 per month. Now if there was a train near our farm going to the city, my rent would skyrocket to the point where I could not afford to live here.
So Seil is not alone in its housing price predicament. A solution to this eludes me and probably most other people. Now, would I move to Seil with my family. Absolutly!!! Would I be looked at as an outsider. Absolutly. Would raising my family on the island help the local economy. I would hope so.
Just my thoughts.
Cheers
Bob
With that said. Locals now compete with commuters for local housing. Many upwardly mobile city workers earn substantially more money than the Island people. Reason is cost of living in cities vice rural communities. Example: 1 room flat in New York City is $2,000 per month. I live in rural Pennsylvania. 4 bedroom farm, 12 acres, 3 large barns, free heating gas is $450 per month. Now if there was a train near our farm going to the city, my rent would skyrocket to the point where I could not afford to live here.
So Seil is not alone in its housing price predicament. A solution to this eludes me and probably most other people. Now, would I move to Seil with my family. Absolutly!!! Would I be looked at as an outsider. Absolutly. Would raising my family on the island help the local economy. I would hope so.
Just my thoughts.
Cheers
Bob
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Pentlandpirate
Move from Pennsylvania
What makes the grass look greener? Your own situation sounds pretty good. Could you live with UK taxes and the whinging masses sounding off in this forum????Now, would I move to Seil with my family. Absolutly!!! Would I be looked at as an outsider. Absolutly
Re: Move from Pennsylvania
So as not to make this post a novel, let me list just a few reasons why Seil would be attractive to move to:
1. United States debt. Our government has run up a 8 trillion dollar debt. That equates to $30,000 for each man, woman and child to pay off. My great great great grandchildren will still be paying this debt. Government has just raised debt limit to 9 trillion because the President still is not done writing checks.
2. War for oil. President has stated that we will remain in Iraq till at least 2010. No WMD. Not one member of our congress or senate has a child in the military. But they are willing to send our children to fight for control of the oil rich nations. I have a 16 year old son. There is talk of drafting our children to go fight in Iraq and Iran if neccesary.
3. Schools. Our schools have metal detectors due to violence. Police are regularly stationed at middle and high schools. Teachers have lost all control over the students.
4. Taxes. Scotland does not have the monopoly on taxes. Two of our favorite taxes are (a) Privaledge to work tax. You pay the local council money upfront if you have a job. Collected yearly. (b) Occupancy tax or as it is refered to around here--Privaledge to live tax. Each person is taxed each year for the privaledge to be alive. Seriously.
5. Last but not least---Crime. We currently have over 2,000,000 persons in prison. They can not build prisons fast enough. One opens and it is filled to capacity that day. Pittsburgh, 60 miles away, has at least 1 murder a day. One of the things that amazed us when we lived in Scotland was that people left thier children in prams while they were in shops. Here in the states the child would be stolen in a blink of an eye. People guard thier wee ones like a miser hoards gold.
The list goes on and on. Hopefully the residents of Seil truly realize what a wonderful place where they live. Sometimes the grass is greener.
Cheers
Bob
1. United States debt. Our government has run up a 8 trillion dollar debt. That equates to $30,000 for each man, woman and child to pay off. My great great great grandchildren will still be paying this debt. Government has just raised debt limit to 9 trillion because the President still is not done writing checks.
2. War for oil. President has stated that we will remain in Iraq till at least 2010. No WMD. Not one member of our congress or senate has a child in the military. But they are willing to send our children to fight for control of the oil rich nations. I have a 16 year old son. There is talk of drafting our children to go fight in Iraq and Iran if neccesary.
3. Schools. Our schools have metal detectors due to violence. Police are regularly stationed at middle and high schools. Teachers have lost all control over the students.
4. Taxes. Scotland does not have the monopoly on taxes. Two of our favorite taxes are (a) Privaledge to work tax. You pay the local council money upfront if you have a job. Collected yearly. (b) Occupancy tax or as it is refered to around here--Privaledge to live tax. Each person is taxed each year for the privaledge to be alive. Seriously.
5. Last but not least---Crime. We currently have over 2,000,000 persons in prison. They can not build prisons fast enough. One opens and it is filled to capacity that day. Pittsburgh, 60 miles away, has at least 1 murder a day. One of the things that amazed us when we lived in Scotland was that people left thier children in prams while they were in shops. Here in the states the child would be stolen in a blink of an eye. People guard thier wee ones like a miser hoards gold.
The list goes on and on. Hopefully the residents of Seil truly realize what a wonderful place where they live. Sometimes the grass is greener.
Cheers
Bob
Pentlandpirate wrote:What makes the grass look greener? Your own situation sounds pretty good. Could you live with UK taxes and the whinging masses sounding off in this forum????Now, would I move to Seil with my family. Absolutly!!! Would I be looked at as an outsider. Absolutly
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Pentlandpirate
Personally I prefer the Seychelles
1. UK personal debt is GBP 1,168 bn (or approx. USD 2032,000,000,000.00). That's about USD 37,000 per person. It's not the same as national debt, but nonetheless is a worrying statistic, described as a "National Timebomb"
2. Wherever the US is in conflict the UK will be too. It was largely Tony Blair's judgement that war on Iraq was legal, that gave the green light to George Bush
3. 10 years on from when a man walked into a Scottish school and shot dead 16 children the Government has failed to implement its National Register of guns. Gun crime is rising in the UK at about 35% a year. Some schools are talking about implementing metal detectors. And as for classroom discipline....? Britains has recently had deaths in schools, even girls stabbing girls.
4. Britons are more taxed than ever before. Many of these taxes are cynical "environmental" taxes. The national tax burden is around 37% and rising. With more and more people falling into the 40% income tax bracket, national insurance, tax on fuel, vehicle taxation, 17.5% Value added tax on purchases, and more than 66 other "stealth tax increases implemented since the Labour party was voted in, hard working Britons feel they get a raw deal. Take fuel duty and smoking. The government does little to restrict the use of either but can't wait to reap the taxes (If smoking is so bad for you why not ban it completely?). As a country that was self sufficient in oil why do we pay approx USD 7.50 per gallon?
5. Crime. Many in the UK look to the US. We say whatever you have, we get, but maybe 20 years down the line: supermarkets, MacDonalds, gun crime and drugs. UK crime statistics (based on only reported crime) have been massaged. The follow up from Police is so poor that more crime goes unreported than ever, because people don't see the point if nothing is done when they report it.
It's true that Seil and small communities like this seem immune to the rest of the world, because statistically murder and theft may be exceptionally rare, but per capita they are often not much different to anywhere else.
I think the main problem with people right across the UK is that they feel somewhat agrieved. Normal, law abiding tax paying folk are fed up with double standards, bureaucracy, benefit cheats and a system that doesn't reward them as the main contributors to all things good in the UK 's society.
There might be slight inaccuracies in the above but they are accurate enough to give you the gist that your average UK person knows that considering we have an international reputation for being a "fair" nation and a government that is "whiter than white", there is more that detracts from life here than outsiders might appreciate.
Is it any wonder then that more Britons than ever before are emmigrating? This is only offset by those who are immigrating because they think the grass is greener here!
2. Wherever the US is in conflict the UK will be too. It was largely Tony Blair's judgement that war on Iraq was legal, that gave the green light to George Bush
3. 10 years on from when a man walked into a Scottish school and shot dead 16 children the Government has failed to implement its National Register of guns. Gun crime is rising in the UK at about 35% a year. Some schools are talking about implementing metal detectors. And as for classroom discipline....? Britains has recently had deaths in schools, even girls stabbing girls.
4. Britons are more taxed than ever before. Many of these taxes are cynical "environmental" taxes. The national tax burden is around 37% and rising. With more and more people falling into the 40% income tax bracket, national insurance, tax on fuel, vehicle taxation, 17.5% Value added tax on purchases, and more than 66 other "stealth tax increases implemented since the Labour party was voted in, hard working Britons feel they get a raw deal. Take fuel duty and smoking. The government does little to restrict the use of either but can't wait to reap the taxes (If smoking is so bad for you why not ban it completely?). As a country that was self sufficient in oil why do we pay approx USD 7.50 per gallon?
5. Crime. Many in the UK look to the US. We say whatever you have, we get, but maybe 20 years down the line: supermarkets, MacDonalds, gun crime and drugs. UK crime statistics (based on only reported crime) have been massaged. The follow up from Police is so poor that more crime goes unreported than ever, because people don't see the point if nothing is done when they report it.
It's true that Seil and small communities like this seem immune to the rest of the world, because statistically murder and theft may be exceptionally rare, but per capita they are often not much different to anywhere else.
I think the main problem with people right across the UK is that they feel somewhat agrieved. Normal, law abiding tax paying folk are fed up with double standards, bureaucracy, benefit cheats and a system that doesn't reward them as the main contributors to all things good in the UK 's society.
There might be slight inaccuracies in the above but they are accurate enough to give you the gist that your average UK person knows that considering we have an international reputation for being a "fair" nation and a government that is "whiter than white", there is more that detracts from life here than outsiders might appreciate.
Is it any wonder then that more Britons than ever before are emmigrating? This is only offset by those who are immigrating because they think the grass is greener here!
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novus ordo seclorum
"teuchter" asks: <Am i mad for thinking about moving away after 30 year's of living here> and
"seventhseil" declares < I am in the similar position of investigating a move away from Seil>
Well; there in two we have the heart of it. I wish you both the the best in your moves. I'd love to know where you are moving to as I don't know many places better tham Seil in terms of quality of life. Obviously you know better. Without doubt Seil will be better off when negative attitudes head south.
As for "ticonderoga" who seems to need to < take personal and moral responsibility> for all our problems; it might be somewhat enlightening to come to the realisation that wishy-washy liberal sensibilities like that have got us to where we are today. Ticky, old chum, its a dog eat dog world and I don't hear you barking....why not join "teuchter" and " seventhseil" in their searches for a dyspetic past.
ola!
"seventhseil" declares < I am in the similar position of investigating a move away from Seil>
Well; there in two we have the heart of it. I wish you both the the best in your moves. I'd love to know where you are moving to as I don't know many places better tham Seil in terms of quality of life. Obviously you know better. Without doubt Seil will be better off when negative attitudes head south.
As for "ticonderoga" who seems to need to < take personal and moral responsibility> for all our problems; it might be somewhat enlightening to come to the realisation that wishy-washy liberal sensibilities like that have got us to where we are today. Ticky, old chum, its a dog eat dog world and I don't hear you barking....why not join "teuchter" and " seventhseil" in their searches for a dyspetic past.
ola!
Available to move in.
If you guys are ready to move, please concider letting me have one of your places.
Cheers
Bob
Cheers
Bob
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Willie Danskin
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:17 pm
- Location: seil
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Ticonderoga
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:52 pm
- Location: Argyll
Personal and moral responsibility labelled as "wishy-washy liberal sensibilities" - now that must be straight out of the American textbook of New World Order thinking!
But back to the original concerns about lack of community.
The championing of a 'dog eat dog' approach coupled with a 'get out if you don't like it' philosophy illustrates a culture clash that has disrupted so many rural Highland communities.
A vibrant and developing community relies on everyone within it working towards the common good of all. If that has disappeared from Seil and other places, we've hardly taken a progressive social step.
And when the last dog survives and is king of the midden, what is he standing on top of?
Or do I simply detect a whiff of old colonialism drifting over from the Latin Quarter?
Anyway, to more serious matters -
'Ye cannae shove yer Granny aff a bus'
or
'The Jeely Piece Song'
- which gets your vote for the new Scottish anthem?
But back to the original concerns about lack of community.
The championing of a 'dog eat dog' approach coupled with a 'get out if you don't like it' philosophy illustrates a culture clash that has disrupted so many rural Highland communities.
A vibrant and developing community relies on everyone within it working towards the common good of all. If that has disappeared from Seil and other places, we've hardly taken a progressive social step.
And when the last dog survives and is king of the midden, what is he standing on top of?
Or do I simply detect a whiff of old colonialism drifting over from the Latin Quarter?
Anyway, to more serious matters -
'Ye cannae shove yer Granny aff a bus'
or
'The Jeely Piece Song'
- which gets your vote for the new Scottish anthem?
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wasseventhseil
Intresting.........
This is more like it a good rip roaring set to.........
Again intresting views; yes I agree "locals" and "incomers" should take responsibility for nurturing and protecting our community.
No I do not agree the loss of community spirit is caused by "incomers" as I have said umpteen times before Seil like most rural places needs new people!
Yes ma1bob you can take my place here but I do not think your entire family would fit in one bedroom.
As for NOS, I can't think of a place with a better quality of life either, but "Quality of life" does not pay my wages or provide me with a home.
And I hold no romantic preconceptions about our past, my reference to it is to remind people who know and to inform people who do not have knowledge of "local history".Yes its a dog eat dog world unfortunatly it sounds like you have been out in the midday sun too long NOS.
I think "everybody know's this is nowhere" by Neil Young is a better national anthem.....oops thats me wi ma negative attitude again!
Puella Perfecta
Again intresting views; yes I agree "locals" and "incomers" should take responsibility for nurturing and protecting our community.
No I do not agree the loss of community spirit is caused by "incomers" as I have said umpteen times before Seil like most rural places needs new people!
Yes ma1bob you can take my place here but I do not think your entire family would fit in one bedroom.
As for NOS, I can't think of a place with a better quality of life either, but "Quality of life" does not pay my wages or provide me with a home.
And I hold no romantic preconceptions about our past, my reference to it is to remind people who know and to inform people who do not have knowledge of "local history".Yes its a dog eat dog world unfortunatly it sounds like you have been out in the midday sun too long NOS.
I think "everybody know's this is nowhere" by Neil Young is a better national anthem.....oops thats me wi ma negative attitude again!
Puella Perfecta
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