YES signs and Posters

[DonnieC]

It seems a great shame that local establishments have not thought it appropriate to display the much smaller A4 posters advertising the forthcoming meetings in North Argyll and espsecially the one being held in the hall next Monday at 7pm.

These are notices advertising a public meeting to inform anybody interested, and, especially those who have questions or concerns, to attend and ask them!

The only remotely 'political' source on the notice is the fact that these meetings are being advertised by YES Oban. The do not ask anybody to vote either way. I also do not know of any other body organising similar events. They are for your benefit!

Not only are these posters not being shown in some places but on other more public places e.g. bus shelters etc, used by all clubs and bodies, they have been removed.

This does not show some individuals in the district in a democratic, mature and fair minded manner!

[jimcee]

Come off it Donnie - these meetings are not unbiased debate on the subject.
With representative views from either side.
They are blatant YES propaganda to try and persuade waverers.
While not condoning the removal of any literature posted in a public place, every individual has a right over their own territory to display anything they like, or to refrain from any display.
However, if your surmise is right, and there is a clandestine removal of literature by the NO campaign, then it would suggest that the island of Seil is not an automatic push-over for the YES brigade, as one would jalousie from the postings on this website.

[DonnieC]

Top left of poster states quite catagorically 'Public Meeting'

Middle left .... Yes?No? Don't Know?

Bottom left....Get informed

At no other place on this poster does it mention the word 'debate' and this is due to the reluctance of no supporters to attend these meetings on the panel. There have been many invitations for them to do so and they have refused.

If they don't attend do you really think their case will be put forward by the panel?

Given the fact I have just got through the door today HM Government's booklet I'm not surprised nobody will come and defend their case. It's full of crass assumtions and does not explain that we can still use the £. Also, doesn't explain how we loose our present cross border trade - it's Westminster who'll be putting up the border. The fact that 9/10 customers live in rUK is a fact and neither here nor there - and that's just page 1. It's like a Katie Morag book!

My point again is that this a poster advertising a PUBLIC meeting, open to all to raise their concerns, questions etc to be given answers. Last night in Kilmelford was attended by many no's and undeceiceds who did ask questions and got answers.

This is what Monday is about - to get informed. What was intersting about the Dalmally meeting was there were two MSP there Mike Russell and Patrick Harvie who interestingly gave a different pictureon his independence stance that Mike Russell.

However, if your surmise is right, and there is a clandestine removal of literature by the NO campaign, then it would suggest that the island of Seil is not an automatic push-over for the YES brigade, as one would jalousie from the postings on this website.

I didn't say it was the No campaign removal squad what did it - maybe you know more than me!

Also, I can't work out your assertion that the Isle of Seil is a YES pushover because the

NO campaign

- your words -are removing the posters!

[NickB]

.
I am very disappointed to hear that these posters are being removed.

As Donnie says, they are there to advertise a public meeting where anyone is welcome to come and ask questions.

We are constantly hearing that people need more information before making such an important decision . . . well, here is your chance to get some.
.

[jimcee]

So what is a Public Meeting?
Presumably one to which anyone can attend.
So far so good.
But what is the purpose of calling a meeting to take place?
In this instance it is ostensibly being called by the YES campaign to explain why they want you to give them your vote in the forthcoming referendum.
But there will be nobody on the platform to give an alternative view to the party line to any questions from the audience - in other words this will be an endorsement of the YES current thinking - which based on the literature in our postbox this morning is pie in the sky..
So Public Meeting - Actually a YES rally to support their cause and to placate any waverers who might have the temerity to question any of their suppositions.

[NickB]

So what is a Public Meeting?
Presumably one to which anyone can attend.
So far so good.
But what is the purpose of calling a meeting to take place?
In this instance it is ostensibly being called by the YES campaign to explain why they want you to give them your vote in the forthcoming referendum.
But there will be nobody on the platform to give an alternative view to the party line to any questions from the audience - in other words this will be an endorsement of the YES current thinking - which based on the literature in our postbox this morning is pie in the sky..
So Public Meeting - Actually a YES rally to support their cause and to placate any waverers who might have the temerity to question any of their suppositions.

Sadly the 'NO (thanks)' campaign have held very few public meetings. They have been invited over and over again to appear on common platforms with YES speakers but they seem to be scared of genuine debate.

That does not seem to me to be a valid reason to condemn the YES campaign for organising public meetings.

These meetings are designed to provide information that people say they are lacking plus an opportunity to ask questions. For anyone who wants more information or who has a remotely open mind then this meeting could be a worthwhile diversion on a Monday evening.

[DonnieC]

It is my understanding that BT or NT do, or used to, organise tribal' meetings themselves in the cities i.e. propaganda meetings to which only those vetted were invited.

There were farcical instances where those who were going were informed of the venue and time by email it was so secret.

BT/NT have been invited to attend these in the past but have refused, hence this format, and, I repeat, it is an open meeting, open to all to ask whatever questions they want.

Why don't you set up a discussion, open to all, so we can all hear the alternative views!

After all Jim,

in other words this will be an endorsement of the YES current thinking - which based on the literature in our postbox this morning is pie in the sky..

Are you suggesting the YES message is mince or the Katie Morag Island Story that dropped through the door today is all BT/NT has to offer?

I do hope Alasdair Darling tries to champion and debate this with Alex Salmond live on tv!!

[DonnieC]

...............and as if things can't get any worse for BT/NT they pull out of this much heralded debate also!



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... apses.html

[jimcee]

This gathering is rather akin to a party political meeting before an election where the candidate fields questions from the audience, and in every case will spout the party line -we see this on "Question Time" every week where the party hacks either trash the opposition or defend the position tooth and nail. So this coming meeting after the propaganda, with any questions only coming from the floor -
Question to Mike Russell - " Would an Independent Scotland keep the Pound?"
Answer A - While there is no guarantee that this will happen we rather hope that it will.
Answer B - No problem, don't worry about this, we will sort it out, and you will still have your pound.
Second Question to Mike Russell - "Would an Independent Scotland continue with EU membership?"
Answer A - This would be the subject of considerable negotiation, and we fully believe that we would be able to qualify in due course.
Answer B - We have had assurancies that this would not be a problem (no details given).
These are but two examples of concerns about the future under Independence, and at a biased Public meeting it is extremely unlikely that Answer A would be honestly given.
So, I would suggest that this upcoming meeting will merely be an endorsement of current YES thinking to allay any doubts of waverers who might be present, or to boost the morale of the party faithful, and although it would be comforting to think that there might be a heckler or two, given the douce nature of our population, this seems unlikely.

[NickB]

I would suggest that this upcoming meeting will merely be an endorsement of current YES thinking to allay any doubts of waverers who might be present, or to boost the morale of the party faithful, and although it would be comforting to think that there might be a heckler or two, given the douce nature of our population, this seems unlikely.

OK Jim, we get the message. You obviously feel you already have all the information necessary to make your decision on September 18th, and I won't look for your face in the audience.

We hope to see people at the meeting who have not yet engaged fully with the national conversation and who are looking for more information.

Perhaps people with open minds?

[jimcee]

Yes, but the people on your panel will not have open minds to give honest answers.
They will be blinkered by the party line and will give responses that suit their cause.
This is the very nature of the situation where you have a rally to espouse a cause.
Hopefully you are hoping that maybe one or two undecided will turn up, be bamboozled by the big guns on the platform and become converts to the cause without having an alternative view presented.
This unfortunately places the suggestion of a very low intelligence quotient on the local population which I hope is misplaced.
We all seek answers to the questions we have about the consequences of this forthcoming referendum but honest ones are as scarce as hens teeth, and a one sided rally is certainly not going to add to the fund of human knowledge - one way or another.
Back to your original surmise - You are hoping that people will come to your meeting with open minds, but the platform party and yourself, will not have an open mind on the subject, and will not be honest enough to admit that there are questions which you do not have a definitive answer for, and are therefore subject to conditions beyond your control.

[NickB]

. . . the platform party and yourself, will not have an open mind on the subject, and will not be honest enough to admit that there are questions which you do not have a definitive answer for, and are therefore subject to conditions beyond your control.

I am only chairing the meeting, so will not be answering any questions personally.

I think everyone understands that some questions cannot have 100% definitive answers, in large part because of Westminster's flat refusal to discuss any possible issues resulting from a YES vote. Certain assumptions therefore have to be made, specifically that:

a) the spirit of the Edinburgh Agreement will be honoured and

b) that Westminster will negotiate in the best interests of the voters it represents.

Within these constraints you will get honest answers from our speakers, and to suggest otherwise is, frankly, unacceptable. Calling me a liar is one thing, but impugning learned professors and ministers of the Scottish government on here is another altogether, and I would suggest that you would do well to pick your words with a little more care.

[NickB]

.

Tell you what Jim,

How would you like to be on the panel and speak for Better Together at the meeting and so provide some of the balance you obviously feel will be lacking?

[DonnieC]

Jim, you really can't expect those on the panel to give the case for a no vote!

I have suggested you organise an alternative meating giving the BT side. Nick has suggested you give that side on Monday. I think the ball is well and truly in your court!

At a meeting in Appin I attended, a man, similar to your beliefs, who thought the meeting was a debate, had the same criticisms of the meeting format as you have. It was explained why there was not an alternative view being expressed He was offered the chance to speak and give his views - he was definitely a 'No!'

This he did - badly, he was unprepared, - but all he did was repeat the BT propaganda that everybody has heard and all his points were dealt with - with courtesy!

This unfortunately places the suggestion of a very low intelligence quotient on the local population which I hope is misplaced.

I think it is you who insult the local populace!

[DonnieC]

.................and just for a real balanced view, no doubt giving all the pros and cons of independence we have;

" An Evening with George Galloway and the ( Allegedly) RT Hon Brian Wilson"

They will be appearing in the Corran Halls Oban on 22nd Aug at 7.30pm.

I understand tickets are available from the Corran Halls.

............and finally!


Public Meeting – Benderloch

A public meeting with guest speakers

Mike MacKenzie MSP,

Prof Allan Macinnes,

Cameron MacNeish

and Jeane Freeman

to discuss the positive vision of an Independent Scotland. All welcome and we look forward to hearing your questions and thoughts! See you then!

WHEN

Friday 27th June 2014, 7.30pm

WHERE
Victory Hall
Benderloch