The CBI - what a shambles !

[Innes Newton]

It still makes not one jot of difference whether the CBI has got its knickers in a twist or been caught with its pants down. The fact is the overwhelming majority of businesses believe Scottish independence will be BAD for them.

[NickB]

It still makes not one jot of difference whether the CBI has got its knickers in a twist or been caught with its pants down. The fact is the overwhelming majority of businesses believe Scottish independence will be BAD for them.

The majority of English CBI members may believe that.

They may also believe the moon is made of green cheese and the sun shines out of your posterior.

It is all equally irrelevant.

The CBI is a spent force in this debate.

Nothing they say is going to make the slightest difference any more.

Sorry.

[Innes Newton]

The CBI is a spent force in this debate

. Yes, perhaps. Perhaps not.

But it still makes not one jot of difference whether the CBI has got its knickers in a twist or been caught with its pants down. The fact is the overwhelming majority of businesses believe Scottish independence will be BAD for them.

It makes not jot of difference if a university leaves the CBI, because a poll shows an overwhelming majority of its students want Scotland to remain in the United Kingdom. They are the one's whose votes count. As a body the University has no vote in the referendum

[NickB]

.

[Innes Newton]

The fact is the overwhelming majority of businesses believe Scottish independence will be BAD for them.

[NickB]

The fact is the overwhelming majority of businesses believe Scottish independence will be BAD for them.

Another Innes Newton 'FACT' for which you have failed to provide any evidence.

Are you talking about businesses worldwide, businesses in the UK or businesses in Scotland ?

If it is businesses in Scotland, what proportion (in your eyes) would constitute an overwhelming majority ?

75%? 80%?

[NickB]

.
Let me put you out of your misery.

Research from AXA Business Insurance last year revealed that just over half of SMEs in Scotland are in favour of independence, in contrast to those across the rest of the UK who are less enthusiastic.

However, perhaps positions have hardened since the publication of the white paper. OK, let's look at a very recent survey by Ingenious Britain of 1,000 SMEs in Scotland that was published at the end of last month.

Here's a few of their findings:

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48% of business owners surveyed believe independence would be a negative step for their own business.
37% of small business owners thought that independence would represent a positive step for their company
10% felt it would have no material impact.

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41% felt that independence would make it less likely that they would be able to invest in growing their business
36% that they would be able to invest in growing their business
13% who thought it would make no difference

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Companies for whom an important proportion of their business is currently derived from outside of Scotland were asked for their views on the potential impact of independence. This is what they said :

24% felt independence would have a positive impact
36% felt it would have a negative impact
13% felt it was too early to make a judgement

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Now, the Ingenious Britain survey indicates that more Scottish businesses are currently opposed to independence than are in favour of it. However, none of the figures above exceeds 50%, which - in case you really don't know what the word means - would indicate a majority.

Source : What Scottish Independence Means for Small Businesses (Ingenious Britain website)

So there is not even a majority of Scottish businesses opposed to Scottish independence, and certainly not an overwhelming majority.

[Innes Newton]

Don't forget to take out the Don't know's, undecided and those who think it will make no difference.....as is normal procedure when creating polls according to you. That will show a clear majority.

[NickB]

.

I'm just giving the figures from a recent survey of 1,000 Scottish businesses. The survey was commissioned by a neutral organisation.

The way this works is, you now show me your figures - with source - to back up your claim that an overwhelming majority (your words) of Scottish businesses are opposed to independence.

The fact is the overwhelming majority of businesses believe Scottish independence will be BAD for them.

Now please stop waffling and show me the figures to back up your claim.

(You must have figures, surely ? You said it was a FACT, after all.)

[Innes Newton]

You're talking rubbish. That survey is of only small businesses as the very first sentence says in the report

The small business network surveyed 1,000 small business owners in Scotland

It doesn't include large or medium sized businesses who are likely to have a les insular approach to their business.

The fact is the overwhelming majority of businesses believe Scottish independence will be BAD for them.

(By the way stop harping on about facts and figures. You blindly support the YES Campaign yet do not challenge any of their 'facts' which are based on nothing but hot air and fantastical dreams. Where are their figures? Yet you blindly believe them and support them. The UK is built on history and facts. Today is fact. But tomorrow is another matter, and the Yes Campaign has not made any effort to properly justify or explain the basis for making it's promises to the electorate. In fact it has deliberately hidden the facts.

Yet you blindly accept everything they say as if it were gospel.

[NickB]

.
So you have no proof, no grounds whatsoever for your statement.

All you can say us, 'You are talking rubbish'.

Then you tell me to 'Stop harping on about facts and figures'.

You argue like a small child.

Small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) now account for 99 percent of all Scottish businesses and for over half of all private sector employment.

So you are wrong, no matter how you squirm. Accurately, around half of all Scottish businesses think independence will be bad for them. About the same percentage as in the general population.

[Innes Newton]

No, I've decided that until the YES CAMPAIGN starts giving some facts and figures to substantiate it's claims I'm not going to reveal my information or its sources.

The facts remain:

Scotland will not be in a currency union with rUK.

Scotland will not immediately become a member of the EU is at all.

Interest rates in Scotland will rise.

Unemployment will go up.

The ambitious young will leave Scotland at a faster rate.

The population of Scotland will shrink and age.

Taxes will rise.

A two tier Britain will be created with Scotland being the poorer part.

Oil revenues will plunge (not due to independence)

The economy will fall behind rUK.


All these things, according to the overwhelming majority of people and businesses, are likely to happen if Scotland votes YES.

[Bill McDicken]

The population of Scotland will shrink and age.

Will it happen the day after a "Yes" vote? and will it be painful ? Ouch!!

[NickB]

No, I've decided that until the YES CAMPAIGN starts giving some facts and figures to substantiate it's claims I'm not going to reveal my information or its sources

For information on the costs and financial implications of independence I suggest you read chapter 2 of the White Paper, Scotland's Future. (Pages 66-80)

It's only 12 pages, and of course you can get a copy for nothing. Have you got a copy? Have you read it?

Once you have read and digested that you might be able to come back with some viable arguments.

Otherwise, I grow tired.

Great attendance and good questions from the audience at tonight's 'Are You YES Yet' meeting in Oban.