Would Scotland be the 14th richest country in the world?

[Innes Newton]

From BBC Scotland March 2014 regarding how the Yes Campaign tried to mislead the voters:

The latest figures we have for Scotland's GDP are for 2012, and including a share of UK offshore oil the figure is £145bn.

This would put Scotland at about 57 in the UN's list of national GDP - between Iraq and Bangladesh.

The UK is currently sixth in the total GDP list

Of course I have selectively quoted this because you don't want to read all the other guff. Those are just the facts based on GDP, not GDP per capita, which the Yes Campaign deliberately did not explain.

There you have it. Scotland would rank around 57th, somewhere around Iraq and Bangladesh.

And that, I believe, is the truth. Can any Yes supporters spot the difference?

[NickB]

.

GDP is only relevant in terms of population.

The only person who appears to be fooled is you.

[Peter Connelly]

From BBC Scotland March 2014 regarding how the Yes Campaign tried to mislead the voters:

The latest figures we have for Scotland's GDP are for 2012, and including a share of UK offshore oil the figure is £145bn.

This would put Scotland at about 57 in the UN's list of national GDP - between Iraq and Bangladesh.

The UK is currently sixth in the total GDP list

Of course I have selectively quoted this because you don't want to read all the other guff. Those are just the facts based on GDP, not GDP per capita, which the Yes Campaign deliberately did not explain.

There you have it. Scotland would rank around 57th, somewhere around Iraq and Bangladesh.

And that, I believe, is the truth. Can any Yes supporters spot the difference?

Which is to say:

‘Here are some figures culled from an article. I don’t want you to read the rest, the ‘guff’, because you’ll then realise that the figures I want to show are de-contextualised.'

Selective quoting, indeed. But I think we can decide for ourselves, Innes, what we want to read or not, thanks all the same.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-26614122

[Innes Newton]

Oh, you don't like it done that way? Dear, dear. You ought to look very carefully at the Yes Campaign material that they put out, which is ALL done on this basis. And you love that, can't get enough of it. Lap it up, it's all soooo gooood!

Besides I haven't changed the meaning of the figures or presented them in a way to mis-lead. it is the bare facts. It was the Yes Campaign that intended to mislead by suggesting Scotland could be the 14th wealthiest nation on Earth. That is not true.

Based on GDP (which is what the Yes Campaign said), it would be around 57th, in the same sort of league as Iraq and Bangladesh. Whereas the UK currently lies in 6th.

I am quoting the truth the Yes campaign doesn't want Scotland's voters to understand.

Am I a liar?

[Innes Newton]

.

GDP is only relevant in terms of population.

The only person who appears to be fooled is you.

Absolute...can you guess what is coming next?.....b ll cks.

The main league for countries, such as the UN league, uses total GDP to rank countries, not GDP per capita. All you and the yes campaign do is mis-represent facts with the aim of deceiving Scottish voters. How despicable is it that you could deceive your own peoples who live in the vain hope they will enter some utopian dreamworld if they vote Yes?

Time, and time again various independent think tanks and economists say that if people living in an independent Scotland will be significantly worse off.

[Peter Connelly]

Oh, you don't like it done that way? Dear, dear. You ought to look very carefully at the Yes Campaign material that they put out, which is ALL done on this basis. And you love that, can't get enough of it. Lap it up, it's all soooo gooood!

Besides I haven't changed the meaning of the figures or presented them in a way to mis-lead. it is the bare facts. It was the Yes Campaign that intended to mislead by suggesting Scotland could be the 14th wealthiest nation on Earth. That is not true.

Based on GDP (which is what the Yes Campaign said), it would be around 57th, in the same sort of league as Iraq and Bangladesh. Whereas the UK currently lies in 6th.

I am quoting the truth the Yes campaign doesn't want Scotland's voters to understand.

Am I a liar?

Anyone can read the article and read your take on it and decided for themselves exactly what you are.

[NickB]

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Total GDP is irrelevant - it is how it is distributed and how many people share it that matters to the people who live in a country.

This referendum is about people, the Scottish people to be exact.

A fact that seems to have completely passed you by.

Whoosh!

[Innes Newton]

Whoosh! Whoosh! Whoosh!

There it flies over the top of Nick and his cronies heads.

That is PRECISELY why:

Prof John Kay, formerly on the First Minister's Council of Economic Advisers, said it was a "mistake" for voters to think claims of an independent Scotland being one of the world's wealthiest nations would mean more cash in their pockets.

He warned that using GDP as a measure fails to reveal how much money bypasses locals by going straight to foreign companies and drew comparisons with Ireland, which appeared "better off" than it actually was before economic meltdown.

Critics said that when one of Mr Salmond's own former advisers says Nationalists are using "misleading figures" there is "clearly a problem".

The YES CAMPAIGN is mis-leading the Scottish voters. Hopefully it will slap them in the face soon.

[Peter Connelly]

Whoosh! Whoosh! Whoosh!

There it flies over the top of Nick and his cronies heads.

That is PRECISELY why:

Prof John Kay, formerly on the First Minister's Council of Economic Advisers, said it was a "mistake" for voters to think claims of an independent Scotland being one of the world's wealthiest nations would mean more cash in their pockets.

He warned that using GDP as a measure fails to reveal how much money bypasses locals by going straight to foreign companies and drew comparisons with Ireland, which appeared "better off" than it actually was before economic meltdown.

Critics said that when one of Mr Salmond's own former advisers says Nationalists are using "misleading figures" there is "clearly a problem".

The YES CAMPAIGN is mis-leading the Scottish voters. Hopefully it will slap them in the face soon.

John Kay, as quoted in The Telegraph.

[Innes Newton]

John Kay, as quoted in The Telegraph

Is that supposed to be significant.

Or is it more significant that "Prof John Kay, formerly on the First Minister's Council of Economic Advisers, said it was a "mistake" for voters to think claims of an independent Scotland being one of the world's wealthiest nations would mean more cash in their pockets", and that the Yes Campaign is repeatedly trying to mis-lead the Scottish public?

The truth always comes out somewhere.

[NickB]

"Prof John Kay, formerly on the First Minister's Council of Economic Advisers, said it was a "mistake" for voters to think claims of an independent Scotland being one of the world's wealthiest nations would mean more cash in their pockets"

The relationship between GDP per head and the amount of actual cash in peoples' pockets is a function of the policies of the government of the day and how much those policies are driven by a desire to improve equality in a society.

What Prof Kay is referring to is the greed and profit driven culture that pertains in the UK. The whole point of voting for an independent Scotland is that Scotland will NOT do things the same way as Westminster.

All the NO campaign's 'arguments' commit the fallacy of assuming that an independent Scotland will do things the same way and make the same mistakes as the UK has done.

Independence is a chance to do things differently. An independent Scotland is not inevitably committed to making the same mistakes all over again. It is possible to learn from history, which is why Scotland is awakening from a long slumber.

[Innes Newton]

I'm sure the average voter is motivated by being better off financially, which is why Yes Campaign is making the false claims it is. Otherwise they wouldn't do it.

[NickB]

The average voter almost certainly will be better off financially under independence.

It's called redistribution of wealth.

[Innes Newton]

The average voter almost certainly will be better off financially under independence.

It's called redistribution of wealth.

and as Prof John Kay, formerly on the First Minister's Council of Economic Advisers, said it was a "mistake" for voters to think claims of an independent Scotland being one of the world's wealthiest nations would mean more cash in their pockets.

If there is a YES majority you wait and see how many people move their money out of Scotland on September 19th.