SHOCK POLL. 67% want independence...... from Scotland

[Foxglove]

I don't pretend to support anyone, I support 'views'. I got what I hoped for with this discussion, which has helped me make up my mind which way to vote. PP has offered many reasons why we should not split...I can't see many valid points from the 'yes' camp. Waste of time and money, as has already been said.

[Seventhseil]

so, should Ireland have become independent?, another busy day at TQ Express I see

[Pentlandpirate]

Don't you worry now. I'm paying my taxes so that it can be paid out to the needy. In fact I think there must be quite alot who depend on me, so it's just as well I only go on SeilChat in my own time. Busy as I am I will need to cut short my lunchtime, but I do want to take a minute to reply on a subject I think is important: for me, my country is very important.

We have two lists of 'achievements' offered. One is supplied to support a case for what the Scottish Government has done to benefit the people of Scotland. The other is to highlight the changes made to benefit the lives of the people in the UK as a whole....including Scotland.

As Maggie suggests, Scotland already gets the best of both worlds....yet for some that is not enough. As Maggie suggests the system works. The results are there. As the saying goes, the system isn't broken so why change it?

[MonaLott]

Come down from your ivory towers! Scotland has higher poverty levels, poorer buildings, roads and infrastructure and worse health than the UK as a whole. In other words, the present set-up doesn't work. We need our own government with radically different views on how best to allocate its resources.

[Husker Doo]

Mona thats how i feel too its all about wanting the best for our wee country and we have chance to prove that we want better than second best

[NickB]

.

[Pentlandpirate]

Scotland has higher poverty levels, poorer buildings, roads and infrastructure and worse health than the UK as a whole

So who are you blaming for that? The Scots aren't powerless to do things for themselves. They have the resources, the means and the powers to change these things, and have had for a long time. Why didn't they do it? the problem is 'attitude': always blame someone else, whilst pointing down south.

The 'poster' shown by Nick above is yet another 'blaming' banner. "Cuts we did not vote for". Perhaps the UK government (with it's MP's for Scotland) was a bit more realistic than the Holyrood parliament. You can't just go on spending and spending. You've got to work for your money. Benefits have been too easily passed out and squandered by the lazy and feckless to the loss of those who genuinely need them. Scotland has a bigger proportion of its population dependent on public money. This needs to change to the benefit of the country but clearly the controlling forces in the Scottish government disagree.

I must admit the 100 best things the Scottish Government has done for Scotland are a pretty mixed bag. As is the 100 best things that appear on the other list. But if you actually read them they are littered with irrelevances. For instance

• We delivered Scotland’s first ever year of Homecoming in 2009, encouraging more than 95,000 visitors to travel to Scotland and exceeding its target by generating £53.7 million in additional tourism revenue

In 2009? But the official figures

Official figures show more than 100,000 fewer visitors to Scotland in summer 2012 against previous year

The number of tourists visiting Scotland fell by 12 per cent last summer, new official figures show.

Figures released by the Office for National Statistics show a drop of more than 100,000 visitors between July and September on the previous year, with tourist spend also down £50 million on the the same period in 2011

What an achievement.

Personally I am much more interested in what The Scottish Government can do in the future with an independent Scotland because if they can make it sound good enough I'm seriously thinking of moving to Balvicar for my retirement and hopefully the free health care (and I have alot of friends in the area, particularly the members of SeilChat). But just as the Yes campaigners can come up with a list of 100 things they think they have achieved, why can't they come up with 100 things they hope to do (in reasonable detail) for an independent Scotland? After all an independent Scotland is all about the future. The absence of any sort of planning leaves too many people unconvinced that Scottish independence is a good idea.

[Maggie]

[Husker Doo]

im sorry im not very intelligent could someone explain the last post

[Tony the Toad]

[quote="Husker Doo"]im sorry im not very intelligent could someone explain the last post[/quote

Not anything to do with lack of intelligence, just that the question makes no sense, and the answer even less.

[Pentlandpirate]

No, it does make sense. It is making the point that in both the 'Westminster' and Scottish parliamentary elections the percentage of people in Scotland who voted for 'Unionists' was 80.1% and 54.6% respectively. The pecentage of people in Scotland who voted for the 'independence' party, the SNP , in bothe elections were the minority. Scotland has daydreamed its way into the referendum process against the wishes of the majority of the voters.

An independent Scotland proposes to introduce proportional representation for a fairer Scotland as they put it. Yet the path they have taken thus far would be deemed unfair by their own standards.

[Seventhseil]

so Ireland, should they have become independent....

on another note....... Presently a tory govenment in the uk, (ignoring the libdems)
No. of Tory seats in Scottish Parliament= 15/129
No. of Scottish Tory MPs = 1/59
No. of Scottish Tory MEPs = 1/6

Support in total hovering around 15%

[Pentlandpirate]

on another note....... Presently a tory govenment in the uk, (ignoring the libdems)
No. of Tory seats in Scottish Parliament= 15/129
No. of Scottish Tory MPs = 1/59
No. of Scottish Tory MEPs = 1/6

But the fact is it isn't a Conservative Government in power. It's a coalition with the Libdems. The percentage of Tories is totally irrelevant.

The Irish situation is much more complex, not least due to the influx of Scots and splits along religious lines. You might wonder that if Ireland had remained unified, without Northern Ireland being split away, whether it might have dealt with the Troubles, unemployment, poverty, and religious hatred better within a United Ireland better. What made the Republicans fight the Unionists?

Are you suggesting that separating Scotland from the rest of the UK could lead to divisions forming within an independent Scotland along Separatist and Unionist lines, with troubles similar to what happened in Northern Ireland? It's an interesting thought.

[Tony the Toad]

PP: 'But the fact is it isn't a Conservative Government in power. It's a coalition with the Libdems. The percentage of Tories is totally irrelevant.'

Hahahahahahahahahhaha. Bwahhahahahaha hahahahahahahaha.

Thanks for the laugh, PP.

[Pentlandpirate]

And that is so hilarious because..............

[Seventhseil]

What about Estonia?

Ps. Is there a local internet Forum for Congleton, that could use my constitutional input? Oh and Christmas tree 2010 is my favorite!

[MonaLott]

Some basic good reasons for Yes here
http://www.yesscotland.net/a_choice_between_two_futures

[Pentlandpirate]

Seventhseil....are you stalking me? Yes, my photos are fair game too. I'm glad you like them. Feel free to add yours as well, and if there isn't a Congleton forum already, feel free to set one up like Nick did.

[NickB]

Seventhseil....are you stalking me? Yes, my photos are fair game too. I'm glad you like them. Feel free to add yours as well, and if there isn't a Congleton forum already, feel free to set one up like Nick did.

Eh? I don't recollect setting up a Congleton forum . . .

[Pentlandpirate]

....................like Nick did on Seil!

Don't you feel that the Yes Campaign is actually putting it's supporters down? It really does make the Scots look like they are poor and downtrodden. And the blame and moaning is deafening. It seems that the Yes campaigners want as many Scots voters as possible to believe that they are treated and live like lower class citizens. Do none of them appreciate what they get in life? Do none of them realise that if you want something in life you have to work for it?

Has anyone analysed what proportion of Yes voters are employed in the public sector, unionised industries or live on benefits? It might be quite revealing.

How is our society unfair? What is this extreme inequality that they describe?