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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:57 am 
I recall Nick B saying he was going. Got any pix you can post here ?

Police say that the attendance was 8,300 (less than last year as I predicted) but Nicola and Alex are claiming 30,000.

Here's a photo of the rally taken at 2.30pm when it was in full swing.

I think the police were pretty much spot on.

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:16 pm 
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I suggest you watch the WoS video below which gives the best coverage of the event so far I've seen.

I was there, in the pipe band that lead the marchers and can tell you that the numbers attending the march were well in excess of last years numbers. The band stopped at the entrance to Calton Hill and played for the marchers going uphill and the intention was to continue to do so until the majority of the marchers were up the hill.

The capacity of the hill, according to ECC, is 12,500 and the police stopped many marchers from going any further up the hill for safety reasons.

(As an aside, I would question the suitability of Calton Hill for such and event due to the unsuitable terrain - uncomfortable to stand on for 1-2 hours, despite the iconic status!)

We stopped playing then and I went up to hear the speeches. My wife decided that she would go back into Edinburgh and told me later that the marchers stretched back along Regent Road, Waterloo Place and over the North Bridge.

In my opinion there were certainly more than 20,000 people on the march and rally. Not everyone wanted to go up the hill and many watched the events up on the Hill on the large TV screens below at the entrances to the Park.

I found on line two other videos of the event on Spanish and Russian websites. I find the media bias, particularly the BBC and STV, absolutely appalling in their non-reporting of this event. I was unsure before of their prejudiced outlook but not anymore. They should be unreservedly ashamed!

http://wingsoverscotland.com/a-flavour-of-the-day/

:yes

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:42 pm 
Thanks, Donnie, for the first hand report.

I think there are many reasons why the march/rally failed to capture the imagination of the public and the media but I seriously think that Nicola has made a huge rod for her own back by exaggerating the turnout as 30,000. There will another Yes march/rally next year close to the vote and everyone will be looking at the attendance. Anything below 30,000 will now be portrayed as a massive failure of support.

Despite the evidence of the aerial photo I can accept an estimate of say 15,000 to 20,000 max. given that some will have not climbed the hill.

Interestingly the BetterTogether event scheduled for July next year on Glasgow Green is not being planned as a march/rally but as a celebration of the Union via a concert and high profile speeches. It seems that the music offer will include both Rod Stewart and Susan Boyle, and that amongst the iconic Scots speaking will be Sirs Chris Hoy and Alex Ferguson and Gavin Hastings.

That format has the potential for attracting in excess of 100,000.

Maybe the SNP could learn from that next year.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:41 am 
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Longshanks, you really are a miserable, lying, anti-democratic, boring, forelock-tugging boor.

That is all.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:00 am 
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Can we please avoid personal attacks on other posters?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:39 pm 
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Tony, you forgot to mention patronising.

Longshanks, below is info re the attendance at the march and rally.

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?f ... =1&theater

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Very interesting Donnie.

Mike Wallace says in the comments below the picture:

Mike Wallace wrote:
. . . I used the 'contact us' link on the police Scotland web page and told them I'd been on the march and couldn't understand the discrepancy between the media figure and what my own eyes told me.....this is the reply I received.


Facebook can be a bit transient, so here's the pic itself: Image

That seems to clear the numbers question up - and once again it does not show the Scottish media in a good light.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:50 pm 
NickB wrote:
Can we please avoid personal attacks on other posters?


Och. Don't worry about it NickB. Tony the Toad's nasty little attack says far, far more about him than me.

Slightly disappointed with DonnieC for adding to it though.

Tolerant Shanks (thick-skinned by choice)

ps. Now that the debate is swinging again how about reinstating the Independence Discussion Forum (perhaps removing your last two posts) and, at the same time, reinstating the much missed longtime member PP ?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:21 pm 
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longshanks wrote:
Slightly disappointed with DonnieC for adding to it though.

I'm sure you can appreciate that some of your posts could be seen as patronising. I'm afraid I thought that particular remark was fair comment. (And indeed perhaps the same could be said of some of my posts . . . )

I would be prepared to reinstate the independence discussion forum if I thought more people would use it. Previously it was an inane and pointless dialogue between the two of us which was, I fear, failing to either enlighten or entertain.

If anyone else is actually still reading this forum please post here if you can see yourself contributing to a reinstated independence discussion forum.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:50 pm 
DonnieC wrote:
Tony, you forgot to mention patronising.

Longshanks, below is info re the attendance at the march and rally.

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?f ... =1&theater


Donnie, feel free to believe something someone has posted on their Facebook (!) page. Your choice certainly but I would question why the supposed info regarding a rally in Edinburgh seems to have come from the Glasgow police rather than the Edinburgh police. "Slip of the pen" perhaps :roll:

Most agree with the old saying that a picture is worth 8,300 words (incidentally that is the official figure given on the day by the police on the spot). Here's the actuality so just let's leave the readership of this forum to decide from the evidence of their own eyes.

Image

Long Numbers (Counting by choice)

ps. NickB; are you now going to reinstate the much missed Pentland Pirate ?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:09 pm 
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longshanks wrote:
I would question why the supposed info regarding a rally in Edinburgh seems to have come from the Glasgow police rather than the Edinburgh police.


You haven't heard that we now have a national police force then ?

Deleted identities cannot be reinstated. They are gone from the database for good.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:02 pm 
NickB wrote:
longshanks wrote:
I would question why the supposed info regarding a rally in Edinburgh seems to have come from the Glasgow police rather than the Edinburgh police.


You haven't heard that we now have a national police force then ?



There was me thinking that patronising posts are not welcome here. C'est la vie. Luckily I don't feel patronised personally; I've stronger self belief than to feel that.

So, yes I do know about the SNP's abolishing of our regional police forces giving huge centralised power to Blair's and Gadaffi's lackey MacAskill.

I also know that the Glasgow Division is responsible for marches in Glasgow and the Edinburgh Division is responsible for marches in Edinburgh.

Quote:

Greater Glasgow Division provides policing services across 215 square miles and serves almost 770,000 people.

It includes a wide contrast of communities, from densely populated areas such as Drumchapel and Easterhouse, to the semi-rural villages of Eaglesham and Twechar.

The area is home to a number of football stadia, including the National Football Stadium at Hampden, Celtic Park, Ibrox Park, and Firhill Stadium.

Greater Glasgow Division has thirteen Command Areas aligned with the respective local councils areas. Each has a dedicated Area Commander, with the responsibility for all day-to-day policing functions.

Each area is served by a number of community policing teams. These teams are built around the needs of local people. They are responsible for responding to calls in the local area, as well as looking for long term solutions to key issues.

http://www.scotland.police.uk/your-comm ... r-glasgow/

Quote:

The divisional headquarters is St. Leonard's Police Station in central Edinburgh where the Local Police Commander, four functional Superintendents and a Detective Superintendent are located. The station also houses the Divisional Custody Centre. There are 14 other stations across the city (inclusive of the Police Information Centre).

Edinburgh Division covers a large geographic area from Leith in the North of the city to the Pentlands in the South, with a resident population of around 486,000 - swelling to almost double that during the summer months.

There is a staff of 1300 police officers and 240 police staff, which make it is one of the largest police divisions in the UK.

http://www.scotland.police.uk/your-community/edinburgh/

Maybe the Facebooker DonnieC linked to got careless in his enthusiasm to cover Nicola's back over her claim of 30,000. Who knows ?. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:16 pm 
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What bluster.

Is it not more likely - nay inevitable - that the Police Scotland web form goes to a single location and that responses come from that location ?

Probably Glasgow.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:08 pm 
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So we're off again into the 'a' bhuineach' - I was there Longshanks, were you, and I know from last year that there were at least twice and possibly three times more people there and that's not wishful thinking!!

Well done Longshanks, your spurtle is working overtime again and I can see these tentative attempts at opening up a debate are purely dilusional.

Maybe we should wait until November for the SNP white paper for something substantial to discuss - I for one is not going down the slagging route again - see you in a few months!

:yes

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:20 pm 
Well, if this is three times more than last year then last year must have been pretty darned quiet.

Image

I, too, am looking forward to the details of pensions, passports, immigration, benefits, tax, defence, EU, NATO, currency, embassies etc etc which Alex has promised many times will be made clear in the delayed White Paper.

A' bhuineach Shanks ("dilusional" [sic] by choice)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:52 pm 
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Hello.I hope you do not get the wrong impression of me but I actually enjoy this sort of thing When I studied being an RAF photographic interpreter it taught us how to analyze any sort of terrestrial form and this photo gave me a real challenge I relished but using the grid techniques for crowd estimates I actually came up with a total of between 7000-8000 in the frame you can see of Calton hill not those outside on the road and on the extreme left side (it is quite easy.You divide it all into little blocks and annotate density ratios to each one.But if you pick an area 10x10 people that is 100 and 80 of those blocks,which I think you willagree is alot of blocks, gives you a crowd size of 8000 with about 10% margin of error.So respect to the police for saying 8300


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:01 pm 
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GravityFed wrote:
Hello.I hope you do not get the wrong impression of me but I actually enjoy this sort of thing When I studied being an RAF photographic interpreter it taught us how to analyze any sort of terrestrial form and this photo gave me a real challenge I relished but using the grid techniques for crowd estimates I actually came up with a total of between 7000-8000 in the frame you can see of Calton hill not those outside on the road and on the extreme left side (it is quite easy.You divide it all into little blocks and annotate density ratios to each one.But if you pick an area 10x10 people that is 100 and 80 of those blocks,which I think you willagree is alot of blocks, gives you a crowd size of 8000 with about 10% margin of error.So respect to the police for saying 8300


I would be more convinced if you could show us your workings.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:05 pm 
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It is quite easy to do yourself.Just print of the picture in A3 and draw a grid over it with equal sized boxes (at least 10 x10). Start with the boxes where you can count each dot accurately and slowly move inwards to the denser areas. The boxes with the lower density which you have counted accurately will start to give you an informed estimate for the dense boxes I am surprised so many people accept the 20-30 k figure with out an attempt to count especially when you can see individual dots in many areas.Any one who has been to Calton Hill knows that the crown of it is not very big especially around the Scottish Monument.Also it must be accepted that there is a large number of tourists (and drunks and weirdoes)on Calton Hill on any sunny day in summer which should not be included in the rally figures.If you took every man, woman,elderly and young, and every child in nursery and school, every one in work, and every one out of work in Oban and made every one of them travel to Edinburgh and stand on Calton Hill it would look about the same as this photo.The resident population of Oban is about 8500.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:39 pm 
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I don't see how you can possibly determine what is an individual person. If you blow the image up to A3 it becomes hopelessly pixelated.

Also - and rather more significantly - your post was made from IP address 195.147.147.73 - an address which the late Pentland Pirate is recorded as having posted from no less than 188 times.

Busted!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:14 pm 
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They must be using the same library computer. :wink:


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